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One of the Kings of the Breaks and Beats. Fall of 2007 Alright my brother thank you for the opportunity to interview a brother such as yourself who owns such a large collection of records, so I am sure you have some great information and stories about the great beats and breaks through the years! No problem, thanks for having me. Alright, lets go to the beginning. Where were you born and raised?
That project and housing community is it just as lethal as a housing complex in New York? No, no not at all! You might have a few things going on during that time but nothing as bad as say something in the Bronx or Harlem. They went through their hard times like other projects in America getting food stamps and struggling to live and the whole 9 yards. I didn’t live in the projects but we were dirt poor, but even with that I didn’t deal with a lot of things that I knew kids in the Bronx and other parts of New York had to deal with, like the violent situations, the gang situation, it wasn’t nothing like that. It was a safe place to live. I went to Jefferson Elementary School and Benjamin Franklin Middle School. High school was Brein McMahon. All my schooling was done right there in Norwalk. What were you listening to before hip hop got on the scene? Well, being as we were not too far from you guys,
we listened to pretty much the same stuff y’all were
So was Rappers Delight the first hip hop you heard or did you hear the tapes before Sugar Hill Gang? Nah I can go back probably as far back as 1977 and that came from kids in the street rocking it on their portable radios and going to the parties as well. In the summers we would do the youth core type thing where we would do the camp counseling and then get a stipend. At the community center they would have parties like every Friday. We would get our money and go. At that time it was two turntables and someone on the mic. Nothing big, real simple where the m.c. is saying nursery rhymes. Those rhymes were to really get people up to dance if anything. At that time I really wasn’t even thinking about it, it was no big deal. It was just something they did in the neighborhood. Then you started
hearing about people in New York with bigger names doing things. You
would hear
You waited until you got older to collect records, what made you start at all? Well I bought records just like anybody else before
I went for breaks and beats! I was buying not just R&B
but whatever was popping at that moment. Well during that time I was into Kashif, Lillo and so much more. Exactly I was a big fan of all the Kashif records as well as the stuff he produced. I was big into Chic and anything else that was big on the radio. Yeah, for sure. And they also produced a lot of good
stuff, too. They produced the Diana Ross album, as That was the move because we were all making pause mix tapes back then Exactly you get your little box and have it on the
bus and cats be saying their rhymes and girls would be dancing and
singing along or what ever. And how fast did it take before it played out and n------ be like “oh you got a pause tape!” (We both start laughing.) It didn’t last that long. Right, right. But it was banging when it was on. My first record I bought was “Trans Europe Express”. I was a little kid but there was something about that record. And let me reiterate that, my mother bought it for me. Even to this day it has its moments for me. O.K. but with those beats I really got into them when I left the New York area and I moved to a place called Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. Now when I got to Harrisburg although the city was bigger then where I came from there was no black radio station. So I had to get my own music to have something to listen to. So I got some money and invested in some turntables and a little system and I started buying records. I pretty much bought every black record that was out as far as Soul and R&B and whatever. And during this time I met this kid name Scratchmaster Rob who happens to be from the Bronx. I also bought a box when I bought this equipment and I was rocking “Apache” on the box. Now Rob grew up in the Bronx so he is 100 percent b boy. Soon as he hears me coming down the block with
Apache, and he hasn’t heard this since he left New York, he runs
Well, I am going to tell you Troy, some people
just have that feeling for that music. See, I can even go back further
than 1978 with Brothers Johnson to even the early 70’s or late 60’s
when my mom or someone else would play certain records like say Dyke And
The Blazers' "Funky Broadway". In fact I never heard anyone
play that except maybe Bam back in the days. Yeah my man BeatMaster31 told me about this jam. Y
See,
it’s strange for me because when I get a tape everything stops for me.
I don’t want to go to the movies. I will talk to this girl later on; I
am not going out side. I remember hanging out with the fellas and we
taking care of some business further uptown in Harlem and as we are
walking by a store, car or somebody’s radio and they might be playing
a song by the Delphonics or Stylistics. I would stop on a dime, “hold
up, stop n----- let’s stop and listen to this for a minute.” (We
both start laughing.) Something about that music would stop me in my
tracks. And if somebody would say “come on, man, you heard that a
thousand times.” I would say “what, did you hear that s---, did you
hear what that n----- said.” To me a lot of those lyrics were much
better then any other era. But it was the music that went with the
lyrics that made it so hi-powered as well. Like the tapes, I also love
finding a new soul or R&B classic cut.
That was 1984 and from there it just kept on
growing. That was a pivotal year and then 1988 became a pivotal Well I wouldn’t say that, because its not just
R&B
but also Jazz, Rock etc. And I have to tell you something, when you go
out side of New York they play totally different records here in Philly
that you, Troy, might not have ever heard. I noticed that soon as I
moved out here from the New York area. So my record collection is
extensive but not just breakbeats. So who were some of the other beat collectors like you who were in your circle? Well there are different ways of me breaking that
down to let you know who else was into it. Because there are different
eras, even amongst beat collectors. You have your early hip hop era cats
who were spinning breaks such as Bambaataa, Islam and all these
different d.j.s and they had their record boys and that’s that era.
Then you had the era that really took off in the late 80’s into the
early 90’s. A lot of those dudes were producers that you know of such
as Q- Tip, Biz, Diamond D, Show Biz, all your D.I.T.C.’s cats, The
Beatminerz, Pete Rock and Danny Dan the Beat Man up in the Bronx and so
many more. There were a whole lot of people doing it. Then you go to
today, to people who are not even producers, people who are just known
for collecting beats. Such as? Like myself, even though I did produce some records through out the years, but a lot of people just know me as a beat collector and doing my breakbeat mix tapes and things of that nature. There are other cats that are just known for collecting beats and d.j.ing or known for doing the break mix tapes also. Such as Kon and Amir as well as The Con Men which is Mr. Supreme and Jake One. There are a whole lot of people and I don’t want get too far into it because I don’t want to leave anyone out. Ken Sport is another one. Today you have cats over in Japan like Muro, cats over in England, all through out Europe. It is a lot of people that are doing it now. How was your communications with every one, were you cool with all? Did ya’ll have a thing were y’all might have met in a bar or restaurant and y’all talked about beats? Did y’all have get togethers at the house or three way phone conversations? Well, I also used to sell records at the record
conventions in New York. Through that I met a lot of people, also
Yeah, you would see that sometimes but not
really. I have seen people steal from the record shows. There was one
time while I was digging through the crates a well known producer tried
to dig right over me as if I am not even in the crate. I had to give him
a look like “Money, I don’t care who you are, man, you better get
your hand out of that crate.” And he pulled it back. There was one
dude a lot of cats did not like and that was Prince B from P.M. Dawn. He
is a big record collector and he is real cool people with me and he was
one of my best customers when I was selling records up there. But a lot
of them cats did not like him and that was because he had a lot of money
and he would buy a lot of records that other people wanted. Some of the
dealers would give him preferential treatment. The dealers would cater
to him first and foremost and that was because he had the money and he
wasn’t going to give nobody any song and dance about paying. After he
heard the record, if he liked it he would pay. Plus cats were like
“what is he going to do with the record, he is not going to use it to
produce, plus he’s doing pop music.” He was really just a collector
but he would also use some of them for some of the things that he was
producing but for the most part he was just a collector. Alright lets get to some of these breaks and beats. First up- Cerrone’s "Rocket in the Pocket". One of the things people mess up with when they
look for "Rocket In The Pocket" is they go for the white cover
album which is called "The Golden Touch -
Cerrone IV". That one has the song “Rocket in the
Pocket” on it but it is the studio version. Which is not what they
really want. But what a lot of people don’t know is there is another
break on there that is a well-known break called “Look for Love”!
It’s like a disco joint but then the break comes and it has echoing
drums on it. (Soul Man plays the beat for me.) Yes, I am very familiar with that break. Right, so that’s on there as well but people who don’t know buy it for “Rocket in the Pocket”, which is the wrong one. So that’s a bonus if they find that beat on there and then they can go back for “Rocket in the Pocket” on the other album. But the thing about it a lot of people would listen
through the whole album and they don’t realize that that break is on
there because it is one of those breaks that’s in the middle of the
song and you have to needle drop right on that part, because if you
listen to the beginning of that song it sounds like a wack disco record.
O.K.,
I got you.
Next
up The Monkees' "Mary Mary". Now with the "Mary
Mary" record was that on 45
because it sounded pretty fast? Nah, that’s on its regular speed. It’s just a fast record. That’s one that kind of bugged me out because it’s the Monkees and you could play that record for a bunch of black teenagers for the most part and have them dance to it. It caught me by surprise when I found out it was the Monkees and that was one of the jams I found out Bam would play as well as a lot of other joints such as the Beatles’ joint “Sgt Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band” which has a beat that is kind of like “Mary Mary”. The beat itself of “Mary Mary” is nice, but when the guitar comes in everything starts to sound kind of crazy. But I always liked that kind of thing. Just something that sounded a little bit different. Yeah, if you get it off the break beat album I
think they did a mix of it because they edit it and they kept the beat
There’s two parts to this jam. The first part I
will play for you is the beginning of the record that you might not be
familiar with. (Soulman plays the record.)You’re right, I am not familiar with this part. (As he plays the second piece right away I recognize it.) Yes I know this one; Theodore, Mean Gene and Flash played this a lot in the early days. Right. I knew you would know that one. Now that one is from the soundtrack to a t.v. show that used to come on back in the 70’s called In Search Of! I think Leonard Nimoy was the host of it. Now if you went back and listened to all the shows you would probably hear it on one or two of the shows or what ever but that wasn’t like the theme song that you would hear all the time. At least I don’t think you would. But it is on the sound track if you get the album. How did you run into that one? Well, there are so many but that’s one of those
joints my man Scratch Master Rob put me onto. Which was one of his
favorite breaks of all time. That was I believe Ultimate Breaks and Beats, which came after the Octopus records. Next Boobie Knight's, "The Lovomaniacs, (Sex)" which I dug as a kid. But for the very first time I played it from the beginning and that is a real nice jam all the way through.
O.K. the record “Sex” was an original old school beat. Right, I think that’s like a Kool Herc era joint.
Right, because you stopped hearing it in the early 80’s. Right, and I was surprised and glad it was on one
of the tapes you gave me the last time we swapped tapes. I think Flash
was playing it. Has to be because Flash was the only one cutting it. As far as all the tapes I have. I got that “Sex” jam off the Ultimate Breaks and Beats. But like always I have to get the original and that’s when I found out it was Boobie Knight. Also that is kind of a hard record to catch. Boobie Knight has another album that is a little easier. That Boobie Knight and Universal Lady (album), you don’t see that one very much. D.J. Cash Money gave the only copy I have today to me. The Boobie Knight and The Soulciety album is called “Soul Ain’t No New Thing”. And that has a few beats on it. I always wondered if anyone played those beats back in the days. But it sounds like something Bam or Herc would play. I say that because there are 3 or 4 joints on the album with sick bongo beats. One is called "The King of The Real Good Guys". Good
stuff. Next one up is The Blackbyrds’ “Dreaming About You”. For me that is one I remember, just the record
itself, because the Blackbyrds was one of the best soul funk
Yeah, but that wasn’t Gladys Knight unless that is a remake from homeboy Bill Withers? That’s another version and you have a couple more
versions. You have the Bill Withers version as well as the Creative
Source version, which is on the Super Disco Breaks. It’s kind of a
wack version to me but I guess they use to play it back in the days. So did you dig that beat on the Bill Withers version? Yeah, that’s dope. A very haunting beat. Yeah, but the Gladys Knight version is an open break that has drums in the beginning before the baseline comes in. Now Chic has a record that is similar to the "Dreaming about You" by The Blackbyrds. I have heard d.j.s cut both the Chic song and the Blackbyrds joint together because they sound so much the same. So what were your other favorites from Blackbyrds? They had a few such as “Unfinished Business”. They had other stuff that I don’t know if it was played at parties but a lot of people sampled them. Such as Kid N Play’s “Getting’ Funky”, that’s from the Blackbyrds. This group out of Philly called The Tuff Crew took from the Blackbyrd catalogue. “Happy Music” and “Rock Creek Park” they also did. Right The group was put together by Donald Byrd the jazz trumpeter. They backed him up on some of his earlier funk albums and from there they branched out and did their own thing. It appears to be that most of the funky beats came from funk, rock and R&B but have you caught breaks in ballads and, say, pop records?
Oh yeah, there are a lot of different samples going on in there. There is also a BT Express sample being played on that EPMD cut. The George Clinton sample was "One Nation Under A Groove". Right. There are other ones even if you wouldn’t necessarily call them ballads, but they were like slow mellow music. Like the Blackbyrds joint, “Dreaming About You”, that’s a slow mellow beautiful song. The next jam is Wild Sugar’s “Bring It Here”. (As
The Soul Man lets me hear it right away I pick up on it. I start to
laugh.) Listen, all that time I never knew the name of it and I think
the first person I heard playing it was Doug E. Fresh at Harlem World.
After a while I would say "why do they keep playing that
record?" because I really wasn’t feeling it. But at the same
token I would wonder were it came from because it came late in like
1982. Well, you are right the record came out in like 1982 (1981 actually) and it definitely is a New York record from Brooklyn. The name of the label is The Sound Of Brooklyn, TSOB. A lot of my homies in Connecticut played that a lot and I use to hear that a lot as well. The lead singer was a girl and they were a disco group with probably this one record, and their record lives on through hip-hop. I am sure they got paid real nice from the Beastie Boys sampling them. I myself used to dig it because it sounded so weird. It is a Disco 12 inch and on the flip side it has another joint on there (“Messin’ Around”) but not as popular as "Bring It Here"! Next
up- "Synthetic Substitution". Ultra Magnetic is probably best known for it for
“Ego Trippin’”. But a lot of people have used it, which was one of
Pete Rocks favorite joints to chop up. Yeah, that was a great cut there. The best use of it to me is on the tape of the Cold
Crush vs. the Force M.C.s where they just break it down with
Right So when I saw how he had these two copies glued to
two LPs I was like “yo, do you know how much this record is worth.”
To get a clean copy of that today is going to cost you over $100. It’s
still sought after by beat collectors. Next up- "Fatbacking"? Flash used to tear this up. (Soulman plays the beat.) I knew this one before it got to the break. You could hear that saxophone so that’s probably why you knew what that was! Right. Has any one sampled that because it is such a cool laid back jam!
In fact he was the only one I knew cutting that up back in the days. Exactly, and I used to love to hear Kid Creole over the top of that. You asked if any one ever sampled that, but that is something some one should have hopped on a long time ago. Did Wu Tang use it right when they sampled it? They did but to me they could have gotten more of the saxophone in it. Yes, it would have made it sound cooler as well as hearing that girl's voice even if it might have only been on for less then a second. No doubt, but they still did their thing with it. I
probably would have just cut it up, I might not even have sampled it. I
would have just kept bringing the saxophone in and out of it. So that’s a sax and not a flute? Well, there’s a sax and a flute in it. Alright next up is Bumpin’ Bus Stop I don’t know if you are familiar with this but Islam use to cut this up and probably all the Zulu D.J.s. (after playing it for a couple of seconds Soul Man says…) actually that is Bumpin’ Bus Stop part one. The part that they use to really use was Bumpin’ Bus Stop part 2. The group is called Thunder and Lightning and it’s a 45 record, which is another one that is hard to come by. There are two versions of this as well, because there is a version that doesn’t have the solo drum beat at the beginning. That’s one version of the 45 that I played for you. Then there is another 45, on the flip side part 2 has the intro break right at the very beginning which starts off with the drum break and then comes in with all the talking and all that. Who sampled it? Many people sampled that part I just played for
you where they’re talking about “step up front, it’s the hottest
Did
it get picked up by Ultimate Breaks & Beats? Do you know of some of the nastiest breaks that never made it to compilations for whatever reason? Well there are so many compilations out now. Back in the days first all you had was the octopus records, then there were certain records that they pressed up to 12-inch records. Like there used to be a bootleg with “Impeach the President” on one side and they had “Chinese Chicken” on the other side. Or one might have had “Big Beat” on one side and the flip side had "Isabella And The Rain", which is a joint by Jo Boyer. You had that but that was pretty much all you had. Then you had the Ultimate Breaks and Beats and the Super Disco Brakes. Didn’t the Super Disco Brakes come before all of them?
So you could probably produce your own compilation? (Soul man starts laughing.) I could, yeah. But I have done my own break mixes
and I have down compilations that have been on cd. What is the most popular and sought after compilation? The Ultimate Breaks and Beats are always going to be classic material. All these other compilations will come and go you might have some that might have rare records, some you might say the record is doper or whatever, but Ultimate Breaks and Beats, that’s always going to be there because there is so much history behind it. When you look at all the records that were made from producers and d.j.s just getting those compilations and going into the studio and making records, you know. All the great records that came out in the 80’s, you talking about Ultimate Breaks and Beats. Plus the UBB actually came from the octopus records, which go back to the earlier days of hip-hop. Sorry if I got this wrong but I thought the octopus records came after the UBB? No, I remember buying all the octopus records when
I got all my equipment in 1984. I think the octopus had already been out
for two or three years before that at least. Damn, I didn’t know that. Yeah, they are real rare; very few people still have copies of those octopus records. I still have all mine. The octopus joints came out in the early years of hip-hop so it was an underground type thing. You couldn’t buy them in a lot of stores. I would even go in places like Down Stairs Record Shop and Rock and Soul and places like that in New York and couldn’t find them sometimes. Tell
me about Break Beat Lenny who was connected to Bam, because his name
comes up from time to time when I talk to brothers about the history of
beats and breaks!
They came off! Yeah, and those albums went up to 25 volumes which went up to late eighties - early nineties. So what was the story with him, how did he catch so many beats and breaks, was he a d.j.? All I would hear is his name and these beats and Biz got some from him, my man D.J. Quick from New York, Bam, Wiz Kid and a few others. I dealt with Lenny a little bit myself when he was
living. He passed away in the late 90’s. From what I remember he was
from the Bronx and I believe he had a chauffeur service or something.
But he got hip to the beats and he got hooked up with all the crews. He
was actually going to the warehouses that had these records and getting
them at a cheap price, getting the cut out. A cut out is a record that
basically didn’t sell and is no longer in print and he would get them
for cheap and sell them to the d.j.s for a much bigger price. Like the
Incredible Bongo Band record which nobody in stores wanted until they
found out that d.j.s were spinning this jam in the Bronx. So he would
get all these records and start looking and trying to find more beats. Very interesting. Yeah, anytime you are doing something about beats and breaks you have to mention Break Beat Lenny. Also a lot of d.j.s from back in the days had a lot of resentment for these records being put out. And I am not saying they had resentment towards Lenny but they had a problem with it because they felt like the secrets were getting exposed. You know how it was back in the days! No, I know exactly what you are talking about. Everything was a closely guarded secret. That was your power, to have records nobody had. When they started putting them out on the octopus records and all these other compilations they felt like now any d.j. can have these records, which kind of blows away a lot of the mystery. Well, the mystery may have been revealed but great music came out of it. Right, exactly. But I mean to this day there are
people that still feel that way. They feel that you are not suppose to
give out the information. A lot of these people feel that is what ruined
hip hop, just the fact that they put all that stuff out there like that Ruined hip-hop, do you believe that? (A pause.) No I wouldn’t say it ruined it because to some degree it probably actually made more people get interested in it and make more people start to understand it and see where this music was coming from and how it was being made and all that. But at the same time I see the point of view that you kind of messed some things up by exposing that because you made it too easy. Its like anybody can come and play these records now and some of these people didn’t pay any dues, they don’t really know what they are doing. They just think the record fell in their lap and now they are able to play it and make it sound like they are a great d.j. Part of being a great d.j. is having records that nobody else has. Being able to drop some bombs on people, have some exclusives that only you have. Its two sides to it. So how do you feel telling this story to me about breaks and beats? It doesn’t make a difference at this point because all the information is already out there. It’s too late in the game for anybody to get upset about something getting exposed; even so all the stuff here is already well documented. So Break Beat Lenny, was he a cool brother as far as your relationship with him?
So he is not given enough recognition at all? Right, a lot of people just look at the records that were made and they say that’s the history of these people that made these great records. Yeah, that is the history, but part of the history is also the fact that there was this dude finding all these beats and giving them to the d.j.s and that kind of fueled the whole culture. So he is a pioneer in his own right. Right, right, no doubt! But he was a guy not really interested in publicity for what he was doing. During those days I was writing for a couple of magazines and I wanted to do a story but he wasn’t really interested. He was like “this stuff was already been told, what do you want me to say because it has already been said.” He really didn’t care for the shine. But I always had respect for what he did. I’m going to flip it for a minute is there a difference between the Philidelphia d.j. and the New York D.J.? Yes, a big difference. For me I always give the ultimate respect to New York d.j.s because as far as hip-hop is concerned they are the originators of everything. But in the 80’s Philly brought about the next step or evolution of d.j.ing as far as I am concerned because they brought new things that were never seen or heard before as far as the speed and the fact they took it from a thing where mostly you’re making the sound by manipulating the record. They took it to where you’re manipulating the cross fader more and you’re making these new sounds using the cross fader. That’s where that whole transformer
thing came about where you have people like Jazzy Jeff and Cash Money
who are best known for it, but there are other people even before them
like Spinbad. There were a couple other names I heard of as far as
Philly d.j.s who have perfected that or who have originated that whole
style of d.j.ing and they just took it to another level. I mean the
whole thing of turning the turntables around sideways which makes it
easier when you d.j.ing so the tone arm doesn’t get in your way when
you are doing all those tricks and going back and forth from turntable
to turntable. I am not sure but I think there was something that they
were doing to the needles that was different than what the New York
d.j.s were doing as well. Someone else who knows better than me would
have to tell you about that. But at the New Music Seminar Battles you
saw Jazzy Jeff just totally….. Annihilate… Yeah, pretty much obliterated everybody. Then Cash Money came I guess the year after or not long after and again it was just another level. You had a lot of New York d.j.s that caught on pretty quick to that style as time went by also. See, once Jazzy Jeff came to Union Square and showed them the transformer that started to blow everybody’s mind and pretty much every d.j. after that had to learn how to transform. It was the next step. When I came to Philly I pretty much didn’t care for the style they had as far as the music they were playing and that was because they were playing a lot of those electro beats, which really wasn’t my thing. I like those hard, funky slower type joints. But they would play the up beat, up-tempo joints like the Jive Rhythm tracks and all these really fast beats. Did you catch on to any of those electro beats? It was a couple and they were all right but that
wasn’t my thing. I mean to be honest I really didn’t like Planet
Rock either. I mean it was cool but that’s not my thing as far as
having me jumping up and down. Now the Philly d.j.s are doing tricks and have a lot of speed but did they have a style for rocking a party and getting people up to dance. Well yeah, that was the style… just the fact that you are doing all this fast scratching and you’re playing all these fast up-tempo records, you had certain records that you know was going to get the crowd jumping. Some of the Philly classics back in the 80’s were like I said the Jive Rhythm tracks. You had that Cerrone record “Look For Love” that was real big in Philly. “Dance to The Drummers Beat” actually was huge in Philly through out the 80’s, which to me coming from the New York area this was old by then, this was real old. But in the 80’s that was their thing, which was like one of the party anthems. Ain’t that something! Yeah, they loved anything that was real fast. The Truck Turner beat; they used to play that at 45. They used to tear that up. But mostly it was a lot of electro stuff. Did it have a different title other then electro during that time? I don’t even know if we called it electro back
then. I guess some people did. Also Grand Master Flash’s “Scorpio”
was big. Anything like that that was going a mile a minute was hot in
Philly at that time. Next up- “Seven Minutes of Funk”. “Seven Minutes of Fun” came out in I believe 1976 and there are two different versions of that. You might hear the two different records on the tapes you have. There is the main version that you hear all the time that was sampled by Jay Z’s Ain’t no N-----! As well as EPMDs Its My Thing! Right, I heard that for Jay Z’s version, they had a hard time mixing it down Right, I think it’s hard to loop it or
something like that. The beat starts slow and then it speeds up, so it
is hard to Very interesting, I was going to ask you about that. So what are your thoughts on that, does it sound good cutting it up like that? Oh yeah, I like when the D.J. cuts it up in a
fashion where it’s not the same thing going on all the time Now the 20,000 plus records you have are 90 percent of them from New York? No, not at all. They are from all over the country. Since we are talking about break beats you have white bands, rock bands, black bands and Spanish groups. You have groups from Europe, Germany, from everywhere. Are there break beats that you have from different nationalities all together such as Korean, Japanese etc.? Yes, I have Japanese breaks. This is not stuff they played at the party as far as I know back in the days, but I have break beats from other countries and languages. Well, can you remember anything from back in the days? Yes, you have. Please. They are from the Philippians I believe. They did the joint “Sing a Simple Song” and they also had “Ego Tripping”. As well Bam use to play a lot of African records. Then there was stuff from the U.K. Cerrone I believe was from France. There were quite a few that came from other countries.
That’s one right there, they were West Indian or Jamaican or something. Caribbean put it that way. On that same album there is another beat on it and it’s kind of funky. I don’t know if I ever heard anybody playing it back in the days. They have another album as well that I can’t remember at this time. Have they ever charted like Billboard top 100? Nah, I doubt it. I have never heard any of there songs outside of Hip Hop parties. As far as Heaven and Hell I found it just as interesting as you in the idea of how did it come to be that they would cut it up in parties. From what I heard Flash might have been the originator that bought that out to parties and if so what made him play that and it became such a popular record? What amazes me is they never played the part where the beat came in at. At least I never heard it, and I like that beat after the words. Now you say they are Jamaican brothers but their dictation sounds extremely clear not to say that they can’t speak clear, I don’t hear an accent. Yeah, but they’re a Caribbean group… it’s a
steel band and all of those types of bands mostly come from down in the
islands. They may be from London, too… I’m not sure.
Alright, see there is a couple of different versions and I don’t actually believe the record says what year it came out. I remember it being in the stores and being like the most popular record in the summer of 1978. Now you had the 12-inch version, you had the 45 version and the LP version. Plus you had various bootleg versions. It sounds familiar what you are saying and it has been a long time since I heard it. But I noticed that there were different bootlegs and stuff. There is the version that has the whistle that comes in right after the break comes in. Right
Alright, the next one up is “The Champ” from The Mohawks. That’s another one. I don’t know if you could call them a reggae group but they are also from the Caribbean. They are actually from the U.K. over in London and that is where that record originated. White or black artists?
How much would the original go for today? I’m not sure but there was a time where it could go for a couple of hundred dollars. I’d have to say that’s one of the most sampled records. One of my favorites would be KRS One’s “Step Into A World”. Yeah,
I dug that one big time. I like the beginning where the girl re-does
Blondie’s part. During
the 1980’s many Yeah, there are always going to be beats out there, and I think a lot of it has died off now but it’s always going to be some people out there that are looking for beats. It has changed a lot since back in the days when we were doing it and definitely from the days when you had Bambaataa having his record boys running out there finding records and beats. It has changed a lot and the Internet has changed a lot of that. A lot of the secrecy has changed because back in the days nobody knew what these records were. Now it’s all out on the
Internet, there are so many compilations that people have come out with,
so now it’s hard to find something that’s really a secret that
nobody knows anymore. But it still happens because you have to remember
that there were records made all over the world back in the 70’s and a
lot of them had drum breaks on them. However many records have been
played back in the days at the parties, it’s like a hundred, to a
thousand times more beats that are out there. Just in my collection I
can show you like hundreds of beats that they never played back
then. And yes, there are still people that are into that, not as
many as it used to be but there are definitely people out there that
collect. When do you think beat collecting became a phenomenon? I believe that time would be when people started sampling. I think that’s when it got crazy. That’s when people started getting their little portable record players. I guess they did this back in the old days as well because there really isn’t anything new under the sun. I think it got crazy in the early hip hop days and then it got crazy again when people started sampling. As hip-hop became a global thing you had people from all over such as overseas, Japanese cats, everybody going all around trying to find all these breaks and beat records. It was just the other day I caught one by The Average White Band that did the joint for Eric B and Rakim’s record. Yeah, “School Boy Crush”! Yeah,
I couldn’t believe it. I was listening to Music Choice on cable t.v.
and heard the opening to “Microphone Fiend” and I was like oh snap,
check that- out a hidden beat right there in front of my face. Yeah. So you would say 1985 was when cats were really going all out digging and searching for beats? I would have to say 1988 is when sampling got real
crazy and everybody was trying to get James Brown records and
everything. You saw an increase then, and as you got into the 90’s you
then started having the record shows or record conventions. You had all
these producers trying to find records. I guess certain records came out
and influenced people like De La Soul’s first record. Some of the
Tribe’s stuff and then you had the Diggin’ In The Crates crew, as
well as the Beatnuts and people like that. When all those cats started
coming out with records and all those obscure beats and samples you just
had more people that were trying to get into that. So who are the top record collectors and are you one of them? I think for a while I might have been but I think a lot of people probably passed me by today. I haven’t really been into it since my daughter was born, which was in 1999. Praise God that was when my son Troy Jr. was born as well. Right, so there might be some people who have gone on and surpassed me. Back in the days it was mostly black kids that were doing it, but with the internet and with the whole hip hop thing becoming global you see more people of other nationalities who are into it and some of them cats take it to levels that I think a lot of brothers are not going to go to. Because brothers are still trying to be cool even though you doing this record thing, these other cats don’t care- they go all out. It’s almost like a nerd obsession with them. (Troy laughs.) Right. They trying to find every record that ever existed you know what I mean. And they know all the names, titles, what year they were, who wrote them, the catalog numbers on the records. I mean they know all the details, man. And the Internet has made a lot of that easier because back in the days all those secrets were heavily guarded; now people just give all the information out to everybody. You know what I mean! It’s just like a free for all. This is important- how do all these guys get away with making these compilations, how come they are not being sued like Bizmarkie? I will tell you exactly why, because Biz put out records that sold millions of copies. These compilations with the beats on them are only selling maybe 10 to 20,000 copies tops. It’s not worth it to them to go through all the litigation and dragging somebody into court because it is not enough money being made off it. If any of those compilations start selling hundreds of thousands of copies then yeah, they would get sued. Somebody would come after them. In fact I think some people have been stepped to as far as the compilations. Back to you and the rest of the record collectors, are you guys like small communities were y’all talk to each other, or is it really a big competition amongst yourselves. Well, it’s both. It’s definitely a close-nit
community. All the big record collectors know each other pretty much.
That is the way it definitely was. You know somebody else who was deep
into it and you have a certain respect for them, or you’re trying to
get information from them they might give you some, you trade back and
forth, you know what I mean. It is definitely that but there is also a
certain level of competition because you want to try to have more then
the next man or you want to have that elusive record that the next man
can’t get, you know what I mean? Right. So you see a little bit of both. The whole record thing can be a real cutthroat thing some times, it can bring out the worst in people because people are so greedy and they want to have every beat. Some times you will step on the next man to get that beat that nobody else has or that beat that’s hard to find. So how do some of you guys floss the new beat that you might get? I mean some of you don’t even d.j. parties? Y’all just want to collect it and listen for your own pleasure at home? Well, you do have guys that are just collectors but then you have dudes who d.j. out. You have dudes like myself who use to make beat tapes or mix tapes that pretty much just played beats that people sampled. I built a reputation just doing that. Then you had producers that took the rare record and used it in their production and people would lose their mind over that because they knew what the record was that they sampled. Now I don’t even know if this stuff still goes on any more because hip hop has changed so much now, as far as everyone is now doing stuff with keyboards. So I don’t even know how important sampling is to the whole process now. But that was how it was up until the late 90’s. Who were the big d.j.s during your time that collected? Well you had d.j.s that collected and you had
producers who collected. Sometimes they did both but it is basically the
same names you hear when you hear about people digging in the crates.
Like a lot of my customers I used to sell to at record shows. Your
Diamond D’s, your Buck Wild’s, the producer from Digging in the
Crates. Premo, Biz, it’s so many people I don’t want to leave
anybody out. The Beatminerz with D.J. Evil D and them. Then you have
cats out on the west coast like D.J. Shadow, and he’s a hip-hop
producer but he also does I think what they call Trip Hop or something.
But Shadow is cool people and he is one of those guys that go to the
next level with the collecting, I mean way beyond anything I would ever
go to. Well what about Q Tip, I heard he was also a big beat collector? Yes, him also. He lost his collection when his house burned down. Sorry to hear that. I didn’t know that. Yeah, but I think he got a lot of his collection put back together because a lot of people donated records to him and stuff like that. Right, right. But I didn’t know that about Q Tip being a big beat collector. Almost sounds like he collected more then his own d.j. Well, I know I used to see Q Tip at the record shows but I personally never saw Muhammad at the record shows. So how did this Roosevelt Hotel soul and disco show come about?
Cats like Pete Rock and just about everyone you can name that was producing records in the early 90’s as far as New Yorkers. When I got there and I saw how much these records were going for I said “I can find these same records for a lot cheaper then this”. So finally I got the idea and said I need to set a table here and start selling beats myself. So that’s what I did, I started bringing my records out there and my first day there I made like $2,000 before I even set up because they bum rushed me for my records. Is that still going on today at the Roosevelt Hotel? Nah, not any more, this is long ago. When I
started doing it it was around 1995.It had already been going on for
years before that. Why did it stop? Well, a lot of those people didn’t go there just for beats but because they were record collectors so people have their own feelings about that. My personal feeling is the changes in hip hop, once hip hop came to a point were everybody wasn’t digging for breaks and samples and people were getting out their keyboards I think less people were really interested and they no longer wanted to go to the record shows. And that’s just one thing, there are other reasons too. But it just ended up dying off. They still have record shows in New York but that was the biggest one. So how does this go, you buy records from other places and you buy as many as you can and then you take them to the record shows and you then sell them at the prices that you want to sell them for? Right, that’s it. You buy low, sell high pretty much. And because the records are hard to find you charge more money for them or just because it is a sought after record. Plus you are catering to producers and d.j.s. So you are going out finding the records that they want, saving them from doing the work to go out and find these records. So that’s why the price would get elevated as well. So now the whole ballroom in the hotel is full with dealers who got records. And like I said, all the dealers were not there selling beats, you had certain dudes who specialized in selling samples to the producers. Such as me and another cat name John Carraro and other cats like the Vinyl Dogs and Bob Gibson who specialized in selling beats to the producers. Then you had a lot of other people that just sold records. All right, let’s switch back to the records. The next one is Bob James’ “Take Me To The Mardi Gras”.
Now Biz told me he has it but without the bells! That’s a hip-hop urban legend. (Troy starts to laugh.) Biz is a funny dude; I am not going to say that it is not true that he has it. Because Biz does have a lot of incredible stuff that people thought he was just making up and boom, he got it. So maybe he does, and I am going to put it like this, that was a big rumor and a lot of people in the world have been trying to find this version of Bob James “Mardi Gras” without the Bells. But nobody has found it yet. So
what does Bob James have to say about this?
Actually I believe somebody did ask him about that and he didn’t know anything about it. So then that would have to be a bootleg special then. No, that doesn’t mean that they didn’t do a mix of that song without the bells, that still could have happened! And somebody like Bob James might not have paid attention to something like that, because the whole significance of the bells and the breaks he wasn’t thinking about when he made that record. Right So if somebody made a different mix he wouldn’t
know about that. But the Biz story was he got it on a 12 inch record and
he got it in a suitcase from CTI Records which was the label that put
that record out and it’s supposed to be a special suit case which the
promo records came in. What! I never heard that before.
All right, good stuff. The next record is “I’m Chief Kamanawanalea” by the Turtles. Yeah, that’s my joint too. That’s kind of like one of my favorite beats from back then, which was like kind of under the radar back then. Exactly right. The Turtles were a rock band, and maybe it isn’t even rock but it was in the 60’s when they performed. It’s kind of like hippie music I guess you would say, not really psychedelic but in between rock and folk music. Didn’t De La Soul use this in one of their records and got sued? It wasn’t actually that record, it was another record by the Turtles. Actually I think De La Soul did use this beat but for the “Say No Go” joint. They used the beat but that’s not what they got sued for. I don’t think the Turtles even recognized that. Ain’t that something! They recognized what was an interlude on the album. With this other slow song they did called “You Showed Me”! They sued them for that. That was just an interlude and they got them good for that. It always bugged me out because they didn’t even catch the beat they used on one of their hit records. Alright, the record “Nautilus” Well, my man Scratchmaster Rob who I was telling
you about had some cool brother from the Bronx just give
Right You can take it a little bit before it, or little bit after it. That just shows you your innovation as a d.j. the way you can rock a record like that. Your man Ghostface rocked it in his first album on “Daytona 500”. Yeah man, I loved that. That is one of my favorite Wu Tang records just because they used that beat. All right, next is King Errisson. The actual song is “Well, Have A Nice Day” and
that was one of the classic songs back in the day. I used to hear a lot
of people talk about that beat before I knew what it was. “Johnny The
Fox” was the same way; I would hear people talk about it before I
caught the record. I remember Diamond D having it in one of his rhymes
“play like King Errisson and have a nice day.” Now King Errisson was
a percussionist back in the 70’s. This dude was supposed to be one of the baddest percussionists? Well, I put it like this- on Incredible Bongo
Band’s “Apache” that’s him on the So was he like a free agent or was he down with a specific team, some one like Motown etc? No and I’m not 100 percent sure about that, but I think he got around because he was a session musician, so whoever came to the studio that particular day I think he would get down with them. Now that’s one of the things when you are shopping for beats you look for. I look for certain musicians because you know they are going to get down. When you look on the credits of an album and you see King Errisson’s name on there you know that’s something you probably need to pick up on. That’s if you don’t know anything else about the record. If you see Bernard Purdie’s name on there that’s one you should probably pick up. Certain players played on a lot of funky records that have drum breaks so when you see their name you say “all right, let me check this here”. So they just let them freestyle on a lot of these different records? It’s not like it was written into the session. Well, it had to be, I guess! I don’t know the whole story behind that but these were all professional musicians so they had their stuff written out but then they probably also improvised as well when they were recording certain things. I am just assuming this; I’m no expert on all that kind of stuff. Also there are your certain jazz musicians who you see on a lot of records. Then you have your Roy Ayers and people like that, as well as certain producers and anything that is produced by James Brown of course. Who would be next in line after James Brown? George Clinton! Yeah, P-Funk, that’s like the basics. Then you have Sly and the Family Stone, The Kool and the Gang people. Earth Wind and Fire were real funky back then as well. Let me ask you this- in the year 2007 are there any funky groups like that? Oh yeah, no doubt. There definitely are. You have the Dap Kings; also this group that Jay Z just sampled from called the Menehan Street Band. There are quite a few of them, there are still people making funky music. You’re not going to hear it on the radio nor are you going to see any videos with them for the most part. Well you might see a few, but the records are being made. They’re out there, and there is a scene for all that. And what do you call that type of scene? That’s like that retro… Well, yeah, but that is a little different whereas
you have your underground hip hop people who got their little bohemian
scene. But there are actually real bands that are playing just like back
in the days with drummers and bass players and all that who play funky
music just like what they did back in the 70’s. So
would ?uestlove and the Roots be similar to that? No, not really, they’re a commercial group. We
are talking about underground; I can play records for you that they are
making today just like they were in the 60’s and 70’s.
The Roots and them are still trying to do stuff that’s
commercial today. These other groups don’t even care about what’s
being played on the radio or none of that. So they are taking it back to the origin, and like L.A. Sunshine said “working for pizza!” Right, it’s like they went back into the time machine. And Jay Z sampled these guys you are talking about? With all these drum machines being used today can your ear still catch the old breaks being sampled? I don’t even know if anyone samples those old
records any more. If they do I can catch it. I am always going to catch
it. The drum machines don’t sound anything like the breaks. What’s the difference? The drum machine is mechanical; it has a mechanical sound to it. Sometimes they might sample the sounds from off the break and then replay them and make their own kick and snare patterns or whatever but it’s not going to be the same as a live drummer. Plus those old sounds recorded back in those days are way different than how they do it now. They had like 4 track recorders or they might have had a little more then that, but the sound was different, it was analog, today it is digital. So
do you think that is what Nas does or do you think he went back to the
essence when he made that last joint Hip-Hop is Dead? Yeah… I mean, there are people still sampling and Nas definitely had some samples on that album but to me most of it is a different sound then the way it was back then. Certain records they take it back but for the most part the sound is not really the same any more. I also have to say a lot of the down south artists are sampling. That is one thing a whole lot of people don’t know, a lot of the down south artists even though a lot of the music they are making does not sound like the traditional hip-hop, a lot of them are actually students of hip hop. They know about the old beats, breaks and rappers. And they respect that, but they are doing their own thing, they don’t want to do the same thing. It’s a different day so they have a different sound. Is that pretty much the same thing with R&B also? Well its pretty much the same thing because R&B
sounds very similar to hip-hop now. It is all blended in together and
kind of like the same thing. It’s like a producer makes a track and
you can have someone either singing or rapping on it. It’s not like
back in the days (when) it was a clear division between hip-hop and
R&B. Hip-Hop didn’t sound like R&B,
and R&B didn’t sound like Hip-Hop for the
most part. And now its like anything goes, everybody is trying to make
pop music. Also, people don’t want to pay for samples. So if they can,
they are trying to do it straight up with their keyboards and drum
machines or whatever. What’s the average price for a sample? It depends on who you dealing with. Certain people will try and stick you up for the most part and they are going to want all of your publishing. But it varies from person to person. See, back in the early 90’s I had to pay like a thousand dollars for Tanya Garner’s “Heartbeat”, which is no money today. But like I said a lot of people had to give up their publishing and that is where you get most of your money in the music business. A Jay-Z or Nas has to pay much more if they clear a sample. Now what about you or anyone else selling a sample? Now that’s a whole different game and that depends again on how you do it. Like if I am just selling a producer a record I can’t charge him but so much for that record. If it’s a very rare record it could be a hundred dollar record or two hundred dollar record but in most cases it can just be like a 30-dollar record. But you want to sell him a whole lot, so if somebody comes over to my house I sell him a stack of records. Now
what about if you produced a beat for a rapper or a producer in general?
Well once again it varies. If you are a big name
producer say like your Just Blaze, Kanye West or Neptune and people like
that they might get between 50 and 100 thousand dollars for a beat! Isn’t that something, and a lot of times that record might not sell because the total package just did not have the fan’s ear. Right, but because they are big name producers just having their name on the record you are going to guarantee a certain amount of sales more then likely. So it almost doesn’t matter what the record or beat sounds like, the fact that they have that name and they have a proven track record of having hit records it’s going to make it something where somebody is going to have to pay big money to get them on their record. Then you also have lower level producers who might just get five thousand dollars for a beat. They might get less then that. They might get nothing, they might just do the rapper a favor or the rapper does a favor for them on one of the records he might do on a later day! So that producer can get his or her name up. Right, exactly. All right, now let’s talk about “Corazon”.
Did they do the same beat again? Theirs is totally different. It sounds totally different. So why do you associate the two? It’s the same song just a different version and
its done by somebody else. So when the break comes in it sounds
different. The next record is “Midnight Theme”. That’s Manzel. That’s one that was on the old
octopus records. I am pretty sure they bought it back out when
Damn, what year did you catch that? I got that original copy in like 1996. So you hit the ceiling when you got that? Oh, I couldn’t believe it because it was a mail order joint, which was one of the other ways I used to get records. These shops would send me catalogues with records they had. They would update them every month and send me a new catalogue. I will never forget I was in the doctor’s office waiting for the doctor to see me and I am reading my mail and one of the pieces of mail was the catalogue and as I am looking through it I see Manzel “Midnight Theme” for $3. I said oh s--- this can’t be, this is not possible! I got up out of the waiting room and went out to a pay phone and called these people up. I think the shop was in Indiana. I called them up from a pay phone and asked them “yo, do you have this record, has anybody bought this record yet?” They said they still had it. So how many were you able to get? Just that one copy! So I told them hold it for me and I will send the money. Sure enough when it got to me it was in perfect condition. I still have it to this day and it is up on my wall right now. I have had a lot of people offer me big money for that. But “no my brother, you’ve got to get your own”! So who were some of the people that have used it in records? The most notable one might be De La Soul’s
“Plug Tuning”. Also Cypress Hill’s “I Could Just Kill a Man”. Word! Y
Yeah that’s Flash’s joint. He was the first person I heard playing that. I wrote on my tape list next to the tape “he is playing a record backwards, I don’t know how he was able to do that” and somebody wrote back “No, that was how the record was made”. I was like “damn, thanks, I didn’t know that!” Right, right. On the flip side of that is another big jam, “Jump Street”, that they rocked back in the days and Ultramagnetic sampled that on their first album. As far as the octopus collection number 8 was one of my favorite volumes because of “Midnight Theme” which was one of the rarest of all the cuts on there because when they came back out with the Ultimate Breaks and Beats they didn’t put number 8 back out again. Why not? I think because it was a legal issue with one of
the songs on it, and I think it was the song from Cooley High
soundtrack, “Two Pigs and a Hog”. That was on the octopus record and
then when they tried to put it on the Ultimate Breaks I think they had a
problem getting the licensing or something. It’s like a bongo record, just bongos playing. I never heard anyone play it back in the days but I guess somebody did like Bam. But it has no real drums on it, just bongos from what I remember. And it is played in the movie? Yeah, it’s on the soundtrack but I can’t
totally remember what part. I say that because you know we have seen that movie a thousand times so I am trying to figure out where that part could have been played in the movie. That’s probably the part where the cops are chasing them in their cars. Right. Alright, what are the other ways you have collected your records? I see you have gone through mail order, what other ways have you used to find these rare gems? There were all types of methods but the Internet changed all of that. Back in the days we didn’t have all that info or access to the records you actual had to go out and travel or get those lists through mail orders. But one of the main things people did was go up in people’s houses. That was even back in Flash’s days, that was one of the main ways people got records if you was going to see a girl just ask if her parents got records and go through the closet and see what they got. You know what I mean! I heard Flash say that on one of his mix CD productions where he would date a girl and check out her parents’ records. Once he went through the whole collection and got what he needed, then he would break out to the next girl. Right, right. (We both start laughing.) Are there other places other then New York where you were able to get jams? Yeah, many places and being as I was a heavy
collector it’s hard to break down the places. But cities like
Baltimore, which is probably one of my favorite places and I am not even
talking about a record shop, I’m talking about people’s houses. What
I was doing was going straight to the dealers’ houses for their
records. Certain dealers had some good stuff in their basement or
whatever and I would catch some really good stuff. D.C. is cool. I was
down in Florida, Orlando. Even Daytona Beach, I hit a nice shop down
there. When I was out
…Well
my man D.J. Quick of New York told me that was really a rare record to
find, and I have to say out of those 200 live shows I have there might
be three or four tapes where someone is playing Headhunters! One was the
Live Convention 81, tape 57 and I love that record but I can’t
remember the other two or three shows. Which is one of my all time
favorite breaks. Really!
And
that was also a Kool Moe Dee special! He loved that as well as Funky
Penguin. Yeah, you right about that. But you don’t hear that Headhunters as much so that was why I agreed that it was rare. Plus it is out of print. Yes, but most of those records are out of print. In fact everything is out of print today. But Headhunters is kind of rare- I’m not going to say it’s not rare at all, but there are different levels when you start talking about what’s rare. Because when I first found out about Headhunters this was about 1985 or 1986. I walked right into a store and bought two copies. I see what you are saying. See, rare records are going to cost you over $100 more than likely. I haven’t bought records in a while but the Headhunters record was like a $40 record for the most part. So it’s kind of rare but it’s not really rare. But if you really want that record you can find it. Especially back in the days, but it’s probably harder today. All right, let’s move on to Queen Samantha.
Alright, the next jam is the Telephone Jam, that’s supposed to have two
or three versions. One of them left the ring out and just rocked the
beat! Well, first off that’s an Esther Williams jam,
“Last Night Changed It All”. You have different versions, the first
one was a 12’ version, then the LP version and you have the 45
version. All of those are a little bit different. In
Tell me about some of these magazines you have written for. The main magazine I wrote for back in the 90’s was called Rap Sheet. I had a column in there and I started out doing a comic strip in Rap Sheet and from there they gave me a chance to start doing some articles. I did some interviews with The Treacherous Three, Flash and others. This was way back in 1993 I guess. It was cool talking to Flash because we actually had some debates. Certain dudes from the old school are real accepting of the new changes in hip-hop and Flash seems like one of those guys who feels like pretty much everything anybody does all comes under the title of hip hop. I really don’t feel that way about it. I feel some of this stuff you really can’t call hip-hop. We kind of had a debate about that and I think he saw my point of view and I saw his point of view. I had some real interesting conversations with cats. I also interviewed De La Soul, Pete Rock. Why did you stop doing interviews? Well I went from doing the interviews to doing a column called World of Beats in which I got into this whole beat digging culture. That whole side of it, and I still kept doing interviews after that. Such as Diamond D, Show Biz, D.J. Cash Money, Buck Wild of D.I.T.C. and a number of other people that I can’t think of at this moment. But I stopped doing it because I got tired of it more so then anything else. After that I went and wrote for some other magazines. A couple in the U.K., such as Grand Slam and Big Daddy. I also did one article for Wax Poetics magazine. My man Andre owns that magazine. In fact a cool brother from the www.oldschoolhiphop.com message board has put stories in that magazine, my dude Markskillz. I
have seen some of his stuff, good work. In fact I was going to be one of
the main dudes at the magazine when Andre first got the idea to do it.
But I didn’t have the time and my daughter was being born so I knew I
wouldn’t be able to be committed to the project. I think it’s a good
magazine. It’s a good read. Did any of the other magazines such as Source, XXL and Vibe come at you?
Today with all of these records what do you plan on doing with them? I don’t know. I would like to sell them. If somebody had the money they could take all of them! I guess you told it to the right person because once this story goes up cats are going to be coming at you. Are you saying they can only buy the whole collection, or can they buy it in chunks? I can sell bits and pieces; it’s not a problem. That’s why I’m down in my count now. But yes, I would like to get rid of them in one full swoop. But however it goes down I’m down to sell them. I saved all the ones that are important to me to mp3. Do you have any idea who is the record king today? Nah, I don’t know and I
don’t believe there is one, but maybe Bam is still the record king.
There are so many people that collect records now and so many people
that get deep into the game. Different people collect different types of
records. Like one person might be the rare rap record king. Somebody
else might be the rare funk record king; somebody else might be the rare
jazz record king. There are so many records out there and so many genres
that you really can’t say anybody is the king. It’s not important to
be the king, it’s important to have the music and enjoy it.
Peace to you my brother and
thank you also Check Phill Most AKA The Soul Man at http://thatrealschitt.blogspot.com/ & www.myspace.com/phillmostthesoulman
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about Flash, Mele Mel or Hollywood, people like that. Once
the King Tim record came out we were like, “woo, now they are doing
this on records.” To be honest when I first heard Sugar Hill I thought
it was a tape. I had no idea it was a real record. But once I listened
to it I was like these dudes are corny, this is not what I am used to
hearing or knowing as real emcees or what ever. It wasn’t until way
later that I found out they got some lyrics from Caz. Everybody that I
went to school with knew that they were not the real thing. No
disrespect to them, I give them a lot of credit because who knows where
hip-hop would have been if not for them. It might not have grown to the
level where it is at today. So you still have to give them their credit.
Carver
Community center, which is were I worked at. And we had talent coming to
us from different places up there like Stanford and Greenwich,
Connecticut. Then we would get people from like White Plains New York,
New Rochelle and other areas. In fact the new book out called “Born In
The Bronx” has a flyer with
well as Sister
Sledge. They were hot and big during their time. But with the breaks and
beats I can go back as far as 1978 when I was looking for that
“Ain’t We
get a good loop on it, something like that.(Jaz
actually was the only one to successfully loop it) But the thing
about that beat is it is two different versions, one album has a white
cover and that is the main version you usually hear. There is another
version that came out after that one and I believe it has a brown cover
and it shows all the members of the band chilling on this rug. That
version of the song has the congas or bongos on it. On some of your
tapes you will hear a d.j. cutting up both records at the same time.
and it
becomes monotonous. Also I have to say that is Flash and the Furious
Five’s theme song. I mentioned that to Rahiem when I seen him at Bronx
River last year and we got a little laugh out of that. And as far as
sampling that is one of the hip-hop classics that every now and then you
hear some one come out with. The group that actually performed that cut
is Tyrone Thomas and the Whole Darn Family. I am not totally sure if
they were from New York but the company that did the record is from New
York. Soul International Records I think. 
“Dance
to the Drummers Beat”.
Then you have the version that has no whistle. It
has been a long time that I don’t even remember all the versions but I
have them all. But Herman Kelly and Life is
