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By
Troy L. Smith Spring
of 2008 Take me back
to the Sugar Hill Records days. What was it like to be in a meeting with
all your peers: Furious 5, Funky 4, Treacherous 3, Sequence, Sugar Hill
Gang etc? And would that be
before a road trip or concert, or just that monthly meeting that you
guys might have with Sylvia Robinson and her husband? Was there a family
type setting with laughter, joking or a lot of animosity?
So what group
were you the most closest too, such as Furious, Funky or Treacherous or
even Sugar Hill? Well not
Sugar Hill, because they kind of looked down their noses at the groups. Because of
that hot record! Yeah, it was
because of the hot record. Plus they were like homegrown. I felt they
were more affiliated with Sylvia and the New Jersey folks. We were cool
with Funky, especially Little Rodney Cee. Rodney Cee was a real friendly
brother, so we were cool with them. Of
course Treacherous because we kind of came up with them. I knew Moe well
and L.A. was real out going and cool. We use to joke around with them
and got along well with them. To be honest with you, the group that we
were real close to was Sequence. And that was because G-Man was dating
Blondie. What, I never
heard that story! Yeah G-Man
was dating Blondie for awhile, so we were kind of tight with them. G-Man
was also pretty good friends with Spoonie. We got along with everyone
pretty
much, but Furious 5 was kind of off to themselves. So Furious
was really tight with no one from what you saw?
Did you ever
see that animosity between Furious 5 and Treacherous 3? I ask you that
because Treacherous 3 were trying to battle them for a couple of years,
even calling them out at the Treacherous 3 First and
Second Anniversary back in 1981 and 1982! I really
wasn’t aware of it, but it is possible. I know Moe was on a mission to
prove that he was kind of the best rapper in New York City! Moe was real
lyrical, and when I say on a mission, he took out Busy Bee and they
sought of built their momentum from that. And I guest Furious was on top
in everyone’s mind, so yeah I can see Moe calling them out and I guess
because Mele Mel was the unofficial king of rap and of course Moe
thought he was, so I could see that happening. So what was
your interpretation of the Robinson family, meaning Sylvia, Joe and
Joey? Well we were
young when we signed with Sugar Hill. We were all mostly 17 and 18 years
old. And we didn’t know our ass Blowing smoke
B-Stro? (Barry B-Stro
laughs.) Yes blowing smoke. It was a five alarm fire up my ass! It was a
joke. What was it
like dealing with the band that was producing your music to rhyme over?
When you guys
left Mike and Dave, why did you guys choose Sugar Hill instead of Bobby
Robinson’s Enjoy or Paul Winley and Peter Brown? (B-Stro is
laughing.) Well I tell you, we were like five seconds away from signing
with Bobby Robinson. Four out of six of us wanted to sign with Bobby
Robinson. I wasn’t one of them. I didn’t want to sign with him and
that was because I didn’t see much difference. Bobby worked out of a
place on 125th street in Harlem! The record
shop. Right and it
wasn’t like he had national distribution, so I didn’t think there
was any difference between Bobby Robinson and Mike and Dave! Plus, I
thought it was kind of wrong for us to go behind Mike and Dave’s back
and sign with Bobby Robinson. So I was against it and one other member
of the Crash Crew was also, but I can’t remember at the moment who.
But the other three or four members wanted to go. Now you had a
Peter Brown and Paul Winley, who was much closer geographically to you
guys, why did you not choose one of them? Well at the
time I didn’t know anything about Winley or Brown, and if they were
interested in us, I did not know anything about it. But with Sugar Hill,
I don’t know what happened. But apparently the fellas went to the
Disco Fever one night and they met Sylvia. Our record was hot at the
time, so she wanted to talk to us. The crew later came to me with it and
I didn’t think it was right again But because of Sugar Hill’s
distribution and the acts that they had, I felt it was a big
opportunity. So that was why I agreed to sign and of course in
retrospect it was a big mistake.
Well at the
time, there wasn’t any one just as big or bigger than Sylvia, Bobby
Robinson, Paul Winley or Peter Brown.
Well
certainly nobody better than Sugar Hill. You can argue that we would
have probably done the same thing with Bobby Robinson or Mike and Dave. Well you got
a big pay off from Sugar Hill real fast and then I guess the b.s.
started! No, we never
got a big payoff from Sugar Hill! Well didn’t
ya’ll have to sign a contract to get with her? Yeah. Didn’t you
guys get a bonus for signing? No! No!
Nothing. So you guys
just went into the studio. How long did it take before you guys went
into the studio and recorded your first Sugar Hill record? Five to Six
months! It took that
long after signing a contract? Yes. And the first
one was We Want to Rock.
Ah man! She wanted
to control the market, and so we found out later that she wasn’t
really trying to push us. How did you
find this out? I mean it makes perfect sense, but I never heard this
before. Well, I
don’t know if it was sour grapes, but when G-Man started dating
Blondie, Sequence and Sugar Hill were going through a bad period, where
they were beefing. Blondie told us, “yeah Sylvia was trying to sign
all these acts that she thought was competition and she basically was
going to put you guys in the deep freeze and promote Sugar Hill Gang.”
But she really couldn’t do that to Furious, because when they put out
their Freedom version, it was so hot she had to run with it. Blondie
then said, “When you guys were talking to Sylvia, didn’t Master Gee
come in the office with a suitcase full of money!” Ah man! We were
like, “yeah, yeah he did!” So, it was like it was just a whole big
act. Now, I don’t know if that was true because that was what was said
from Blondie of Sequence and they were beefing at the time with Sylvia.
So I don’t know if they did that, so we could protest with them by not
recording and this, that and the other. So I don’t know if they were
saying that so we could work with them out of protesting
and defiance of Sugar Hill or if it was just true. And I guess that was
something you would have to ask Sylvia. Now, when
your crew members met Sylvia up at The Fever, was Reggie Reg the
representative for the crew?
(In a
surprised tone) G-Man? Yeah, but I
wasn’t there so I am not sure, but I know G-Man was there. So G-Man was
the negotiator for the most part? No, I
wouldn’t say that, it was pretty equal. But G-Man took more interest
in that. I still have to say, I remember not wanting to go to Sugar
Hill. And I remember my moms telling me this story about Frankie Lymon
and the Teenagers, and she not necessarily trusting the music industry.
She thought that these record labels would sign up all these black kids
and get them strung out on drugs and take their money! But of course
that’s your mother talking.
Right So I was a
little leery. I trusted Mike and Dave. And when I say I trusted Mike and
Dave, I say that to say, I knew Mike and Dave! You know you really
can’t trust anybody when it comes to money. But I knew Mike and Dave.
Mike and Dave would never say take this and take that, as far as dope,
or this, that and the other. So you were familiar with them. I didn’t
know anybody else, so I was real leery. But G-Man was the one that was
gung-ho about Sugar Hill. Now you were
so close to signing with Enjoy that you had contracts in your possession
but did not sign? Right, in
fact some of the guys in the crew were so lackadaisical about the
situation, that when we had an overnight party in Poughkeepsie to do,
some of the guys left the contracts on their beds and when Mix Master
Mike walked in the room, he played it off like he didn’t see the
contracts, but he later told us he did. So what was
the reason why you guys separated from Mike and Dave? Because there was
an alleged story going around that the brothers were not paying you guys
like they were supposed to and as a result you guys could not take it
any more. No, that is
not true. Although we use to speculate that they bootlegged their own
records, we never had any proof. But the real reason they left and I say
“they” because I wasn’t down with it, but I ultimately went
because it was an offer I couldn’t pass up. The real reason the Crash
Crew emcees left was because they thought it would make them famous!
Yes, that
was what it was all about! So, Mike and
Dave were paying like they were supposed to be paying. As far as the
gate is concerned! Well, I tell
you this much, I made more money on High Powered Rap, as far as record
royalties, than any record I ever made on Sugar Hill Records label. Say word kid,
because you did about six records with Sugar Hill Records!
As far as
Mike and Dave, I don’t know how far the range was as far as how it was
distributed or bootlegged. But our split was like 60/40 or something,
and they put up all the money. When that record High Powered Rap was hot
that first summer, there was a couple of months where we made decent
money. Especially since that was 1980. I had no complaints with that. So do you
remember the day when you guys collectively said to each other we are
going this way, we are no longer dealing with Mike and Dave? I don’t
remember the exact day, but I do remember saying to the fellas it was
wrong. And in fact when we did it, we didn’t include Darryl C, and
that was wrong also. The only people that signed the contract were the
five emcees! I can’t remember the day, but I finally agreed and that
was because I didn’t want to be left behind and I wasn’t no damn
soloist. And I am not trying to put it on anyone else, but I definitely
spoke out and said this s--- ain’t right! But it was one of those
decisions you make and you ask yourself is this going to make my career
better going to Sugar Hill or staying with Mike and Dave. So let me ask
you this, was it not a situation where you guys were trying to negotiate
first with Sylvia Robinson, saying, “Listen we are team. We were a
team since we were little boys playing baseball. Darryl C and Mike and
Dave must come with us.” No…we did
say Darryl C. But she said no because she had a bunch of d.j.s and of
course we were stupid. Right,
because you guys had plenty of negotiating power. Right we
could have said, “Hell no, Darryl is signing.” Right,
because after awhile, she would have caved in if you guys would have
said you were going somewhere else. Right and it
was a sucker move on our part. But as far as Mike and Dave, no! And I
remember having conversations with Mike afterwards and him saying,
“You guys could have at least negotiated and told Sylvia she had to
buy out Mike and Dave”. Exactly. “Or this,
that and the other, and we (Mike and Dave) could have gotten some money
that way!” But no, Mike and Dave were never included in the package. And Dave
could have gone with you guys as an emcee! Well he
could have, but I don’t know how that would have sat with his brother.
And I look at
that as Mike would have said, “go ahead and do that because you are an
emcee. I can get other groups and we can keep the business still going
on over here.” It’s
possible. I bring this
up because I heard many times of you guys growing up together as one in
the Lincoln Projects back then. As far as playing baseball, basketball,
etc. Oh yeah we
did. So I know
that had to be a sad breakup. Well it was
for a little bit. And this is another sucker move. We were supposed to
be playing a Mike and Dave show at I.S. 201, but we had an interview
with Mr. Magic. Sylvia Robinson wanted us to announce us going to Sugar
Hill Records on his show! So we went downtown and announced this on his
show while we were supposed to be uptown performing at I.S. 201 for a
Mike and Dave show. The brothers didn’t know at the time, nor did
Darryl C. I guess when Mike and Dave got home Mike’s girl told him.
Mike later said because he saw those contracts he knew we were looking,
but he still was surprised how we did it. Of course Dave was hurt and so
was Darrell. I also have
to say that while Mike was watching this, I feel he should have came to
you guys and said let’s work this out before the situation even got to the Mr. Magic show. Yeah, he
could have done that, but again I think Mike’s thing was he didn’t
know where this was going. I don’t think that Mike had that
entrepreneur spirit like Russell Simmons. I think Mike was in it to see
how much money he could make in a short time and roll with it. Or if he
wanted to keep it on the d.l. because I don’t know if his company was
legitimate or what! Or if IRS could have gotten involved later on or
what! I don’t know what he was thinking. And that is because him and
Dave took care of the business part. But I definitely thought he was
smart enough, and he had enough talent that he could have rolled like
Russell Simmons definitely on the short term. Also he could have
definitely put it out there that, “I know you guys are looking, so
let’s talk this out.” A couple of
people have given him his props as almost owning Harlem with the work he
was putting in doing these shows around town.
Well, what I
got from your man Magic Dee of the Devastating 3, was Biz Marks father
owned a club out in Long Island and Mike and Dave use to do shows at
Biz’s father’s spot. Well, that
might be true, but I am talking about when we use to do the VFW. Which
was a lodge and the acronym for VFW was Veterans of Foreign Wars. Which
was in I think Shirley, Long Island. Right, that
was the spot. (Tape 71 with Cold Crush and Doug E. Fresh). Well this
was even before records. We were going out there, and Biz use to come to
the shows back then. All right,
now how was the relationship with you guys, the Crash Crew emcees and
Mike and Dave and Darryl C, when you guys broke up? Meaning when you
guys all use to walk through the projects seeing each other, how did you
respond to each other once you broke away from each other? Well we
still did a couple of parties with them, even though they were kind of
mad at us! Then they stopped for a minute, and then eventually we
started doing them again because the record was still very hot. But Mike
after a while was like, “What do you guys want me to do, keep ya’ll
hot! Keep ya’ll hot while you guys are at Sugar Hill?” So it was a
riff for a while. Well although
he is keeping ya’ll hot, he is also putting money in his pocket! Right, but I
guess it was a psychological thing with Mike. So what was
Sylvia saying about this? Because I thought once you guys signed with
her she didn’t want you doing any shows with him, or anyone else! S---, she
wasn’t putting no money in my pocket. Plus she didn’t care. All right
once you guys sign with Sugar Hill, it takes like four to six months
before the first record comes out under the Sugar Hill label. At the
earliest, but it was probably longer. Once We Want
to Rock comes out, then Breaking Bells comes out and that record starts
to pick up speed, you guys then start to go on tour?
So now is
this a true story that you guys could not play your High Powered Rap
when they played Freedom? Yeah that
was a true story. What was your
feeling on that and did the both of you groups take turns playing the
record?
What is this
jam The Crash Crew Meets The Funky Four? That’s
some s--- the Sugar Hill put together overseas or something. Yeah, I see
it says on the label Disques Vogue 1983 Yeah, we had
a couple of friends from the neighborhood in the military overseas
telling us they got our record over in Germany. But we didn’t know. So, was that
something they picked up off the cutting room floor that they spliced
together? Because you guys didn’t actually do a record with Funky 4,
did you? No, I just
think it was a record we did, and a record they, The Funky 4, did and
Sugar Hill records put it together. So, who did
you tour with the most? Well, after
that east coast tour it was like bad timing, we did no touring for like
a year or two. We couldn’t get into the studio. Why was that? I don’t
know. She put us in the deep freeze and I can’t remember why. So, how did
you guys survive? You just went back to doing live shows in New York on
your own? We did, but
let me get this straight with you; we made no money while we were with
Sugar Hill Records! Everything we did, we did on our own. (B-Stro is
laughing.) I can’t remember exactly when we did Breaking Bells. We want to
Rock was 1981, Breaking Bells was 1982, On the Radio came out in 1983.
Here We Are Waiting For You came out in 1984. Well, that
Here We Are Waiting For You, I don’t know what that was! Don’t ever
count that. We are Known as Emcees was right after On the Radio. With
those three records, we were on the map for like two years and basically
at that point, we had our own booking agent and we didn’t go through
Sugar Hill anymore for shows. We had our own booking agent and we were
going all over the place. Okay, but I
have to say that, 2,4,6,8 Here We Are, I dug that. Yeah, but by
the time that came out we were like gone. You know how rap was, the game
was shifting. It was like Queens and Brooklyn cats came into play. Right. They stole a
lot of thunder. Right. It was just
like you had a window of opportunity and it was real small and you have
to hit them hard and you have to be hot and you have to stay hot. Exactly. And by that
point we were old news. Did you ever
sit there in a room, all five of you guys and say, “Damn, what the
hell did we do? Should we have stayed with Mike and Dave or thought
deeper about our business moves!” Well, we
made a lot of mistakes. Number one, I always thought we should have
stayed with Mike and Dave, but I think if we did, Dave was going to have
to make a decision. Was he going to be a rapper or a businessman? And I
say that because it was a conflict of interest because he couldn’t be
up front acting like he was running the group. Because that is the way
it sounded, especially since it was his business. So creatively, that
was a conflict of interest. So if we were going to stay with Mike and
Dave, Dave was going to have to either be a rapper and turn the business
over to his brother or just quit rapping and they both can do it. Sugar Hill
was a mistake and we should have never gone over there. I believe Funky
4 saw the writing on the wall also. They were a talented group and they
took a back seat to Sugar Hill Gang and Furious 5. Then, when Sylvia
signed Treacherous 3, I was like, “what are they doing? It is just too
many groups!” So, I believe we could have done a lot better with Mike
and Dave, I believe.
I guess that
was similar to P. Diddy in the past, when he had all of those groups,
cats were getting pissed off because they felt he wasn’t putting
enough focus on them and that was because he had too many groups to give
quality time to nurture. So, I can imagine how that was with you guys. Yeah man,
and then we wanted to do Scratching and they said well Furious wanted to
do it. And we were like well we had it first. So it was a lot of
competition. While you
guys were on the road what were the best cities to play? Well Florida
was hot. We had a lot of success there. It seemed as though We Want to
Rock was very popular down there. Texas was all right. So you guys
hit the west coast, that was good. Did you also hit the mid-west? Yeah, but
that’s another thing, the books were cooked. They would tell you,
“You only did this amount of people” but when you go on the road,
people know the song and back then, they didn’t have iPods. The only
way you could know a song was the 12 inch! Hmmm. And you had
to buy it. Exactly and
all those radio stations weren’t doing it like New York radio stations
were. So you had to buy it to know it. To me, the
toughest place was Philly. They were tough on their sports teams and
they were definitely tough on the rap groups. You messed up; they were
going to let you know. So, was it
one of those Apollo nights in Harlem type thing, where if you were wack,
they would boo you off the stage? No not that,
but we played this huge stadium when we were over there. It wasn’t the
Spectrum. It might have been the place across the street from the
Spectrum. I can’t remember the name of it. But it was definitely a
place that would hold 10 or 12 thousand people and it was packed. We had
a bad show and I remember the night after that we tore it up. And Rodney
Cee said “It is definitely better tonight! “ What about
the Carolinas and Georgia? I don’t
think we ever went down to Georgia but we did play the Carolinas. They
were all right. We did real well in Pittsburgh. We ripped that up. I
remember
meeting
Willie Stargell of the Pittsburgh Pirates and he bought his son
backstage. That sounds
nice. Now tell me some of the bizarre moments on the road. Well, I have
seen some wild situations. I have seen guys disrespect women. It seems
like a lot of girls from New York that went away to college would come
to the shows and they would talk to us. A lot of girls would be happy
just to be around us, just to have a conversation with us and that was
cool. The girls that acted like hoes got treated like hoes. I had mixed
feelings about that, but most of the groupies wanted to just say,
“Hello, how you doing!” They just wanted to see you, talk to you,
touch you and smile at you. I got you.
Did Pumpkin ever come up to Sugar Hill Records and do anything with you
guys? Nah, not at
all. In fact I never got the chance to meet him. Who were your
favorite New York D.J.s on the radio to deal with during your reign? Red Alert
was cool, Red was real cool. Our record On The Radio was hot and it was
number one in New York for about 2 or 3 weeks. We were dealing with
Chuck Leonard at that time mostly. (Rest in Peace Mr. Chuck Leonard. Mr.
Leonard died August 12, 2004 of lung cancer, he was 64 years old.) Yeah, Chuck
Leonard was a cool brother, with a serious radio voice. We did all
the clubs in New York with On The Radio and Chuck Leonard was always
there and he would always introduce us. We dealt with him a lot. It
started with him one day interviewing us live on the radio, 98.7 KISS
F.M. and after that the radio station had us in heavy rotation. On the Radio,
how did you guys get that beat? And I heard there might have been some
beef with The Fantasy 3 about that beat. (B-Stro
laughs.) It was given to us by Sylvia Robinson and taken from The
Fantasy 3’s It’s Your Rock. Well what was
the story behind that?
Sugar Hill
gave it to us, and then we found out later that it was Fantasy 3’s. Did you guys
go back to Sugar Hill and say, “What is the deal with this, we don’t
play other people’s music?” Nah, and let
me be honest with you, I didn’t see anything wrong with it. Somebody
might say, you are a biter and this, that and the other, but them cats
(Furious 5) did it to us and they took major money out of my pocket when
Sugar Hill Records took Freedom. And what infuriated me about that whole
thing was Darryl C was part of a record pool and Darryl C was the first
person in New York City to play Freedom. Well, I heard
he was the first person to have it in Harlem, but he got it from Bam,
and Bam was already rocking it in The Bronx. I hear you,
but I never heard that story. Your man Yoda
was the man that told me that story.
Well them
Bronx cats didn’t know what it was, or Bam had it but he didn’t play
it, but they didn’t know what it was. But Darryl C was the one to give
it its fame first.
When we
started playing that record in all the clubs in New York City, that was
like our signature record. We did a couple of routines to it and we
eventually recorded it. It was out three or four weeks, sweeping the
nation. It was the hottest thing on the radio,
and then we hear on the radio one night the Furious 5 doing it.
So I know how Fantasy 3 felt, because Furious 5 took our s---. So yes,
it was messed up and at the time they were small fish and we were the
big fish, and the big fish eat the small fish. But it wasn’t our idea
to do it, but I certainly wasn’t going to say, “Hell no”, if the
beat was hot! We didn’t even take the beat we just took the melody.
And the melody was hot, and we took it. Now I know they was upset
because I seen O.C. a couple of times. Well how did
he respond to you guys taking that melody? Because when I talked to him
about it he almost hit the ceiling. Well he
didn’t say anything to us, but he gave you that look. (Troy starts
laughing) And not for nothing, he is one of them live, wild brothers.
Where did you and him see each other? At a couple
of shows, I can’t remember where. Of course he was with Fearless Four,
when we would see him. A couple of cats were like, “Ah, that’s
f---ed up man, you took their s---!” I think Crazy Eddie might have
said it to us and a couple other people, mutual folks. What surprised me
about it was, we got so much flack over that, but Furious took ours and
nobody said anything!
I understand
what you are saying. But the thing with Furious was you guys just took
the melody from Fantasy 3. Furious 5 took the whole thing. They did
take the whole thing. (B-Stro starts singing the Freedom melody) The
whole enchilada! Right. So again, I
don’t blame those guys for being upset, but correct me if I am wrong,
I don’t think we took any money from those guy’s
pockets. Possibly not,
but I couldn’t really tell you. As far as
creative credit, who ever made the beat or the melody? Well, the
persons who made it was Silver Fox, Pumpkin and O.C. Well, if
they would have came up to me, I would have said, “the beat is
tight.” But you know how people are, it’s all about a diss, but I
didn’t look at it that way. The beat was hot, but I don’t even know
if their record got played, it was never on the radio. Well you are
somewhat right, I use to hear the beat and I always wondered what was
the rest of the record. I didn’t really hear the whole record until my
partner Jayquan sent it to me. For years, I kept just hearing this
blazing beat and Silver Fox’s sliding in and out. Right and I
think the big thing was you can tell they were on a limited budget. Well,
to be honest it was said that a hustler backed them up and helped them
put that together. I hear you
but I don’t blame O.C. or any of those cats for being upset, but I
think it never should have gotten to violence. I didn’t even have a
problem when they put out Biters of the City! They had a right to put
that out. I didn’t care. So how did
you feel about that record that they put out? It was all
right. All right?
This is what allegedly happened leading up to the night of the battle.
The battle was advertised on radio stations like KISS and BLS etc. It
was labeled The War of 84! That was in regards of the both of you
guy’s records. Now, the night of the battle at Broadway International
other than a hip hop battle, an actual fight similar to a barroom fight
erupted! Can you remember that night? Well, the
battle was definitely advertised, but I don’t remember any War of 84!
But I do remember it being the battle of those records. I do remember us
playing our record and then they played theirs. I remember Eddie Cheba
was the host emcee. Are you sure,
because I got that Doug E, Fresh opened up and was the host for that
night. Hell no, it
was Eddie Cheba These cats don’t remember s---. Because Eddie Cheba
was Brill’s boy. I think Eddie Cheba had gone to Europe long before
that night, and he was back to host the show. Who was
Brill? That was
Leon Brill, who ran Broadway International. Eddie Cheba for a while was
the house d.j. and he was cool with us. Like I said, we had the home
court advantage because Broadway International was our spot. Well you know
that was probably closer to Grant and Manhattanville Projects than
Lincoln Projects, which was clear on the other side of town! Well you are
right about that, but like Furious 5 use to hang out at The Fever, that
was how we use to hang out at Broadway International. So I guess what
happened was, it got back to Brill that it was a beef and he said,
“Yeah we should do this!” The place was packed when they got on.
When they finished we got on. I am 75 percent sure, that when we got off
doing our part, Silver Fox came up to us and said something like, “Yo
ya’ll n------ is suckers” or something like that, “Ya’ll stole
our record!” He called us suckers and he was gesturing with his hands,
Shu Bee tried to mush him and everyone broke off into their fighting
stance and then there was some swinging. Silver Fox tried to hit Shu Bee
and he might have caught him. I know this happened between Shu Bee and
Silver Fox because Silver Fox was all in Shu Bee’s face, and being
very animated. So Shu Bee mushed him. Silver Fox got off a blow, but if
he hit him I am not sure. It was a four or five second squirmish, but it
was enough to get the crowd in an uproar. You know four people run, then
400 people run and it’s a stampede. Now I
remember you telling me the other day, in EK Mike Cee’s version, he
said O.C. pulled out a gun and EK picked up a chair. I am not going to
dispute that, even though that sounds crazy of O.C. or E.K. doing that. Well O.C. and
Crazy Eddie were real live like that; those pistols were regular for
them. If Ed was there I am sure it is guaranteed that he would have
pulled out the shot gun. Cats walk around with cell phones today, they
were walking around with pistols back then. They were apart of the crew
known as The Cigar Mob. Right. Well
all that is possible, but it was not this big all out squirmish that
some people said it was. And the thing about it is they left and we
stayed. I can remember walking out of Broadway International thinking,
“I hope these n------ don’t come back with no guns and s---. Because
we stayed up in there to like four in the morning. So after that
it was a dead situation? Yeah, I
never saw those guys ever again. So why were
you guys so popular up in Broadway International? Didn’t you guys
frequent the YMCA on 135th and I.S. 201 or even Harlem World?
Everything
went through phases. Broadway was a place that cats knew there were
girls, and there were hustlers up there giving up free coke. A lot of
those hustlers knew that we knew Brill. Brill was cool and we could hang
out at the V.I.P. room. To be honest with you, I use to take my girl out
to the movies, get something to eat take her home. She would fall asleep
and I would be on my way to Broadway at two in the morning! Everybody
would be up in the there and that would be like where the crew
assembled. Who were some
of the hustlers that were in there at the time? I didn’t
know those cats; you have to understand my father was a police officer.
I was always into school. That was the thing about us, nobody in the
group hustled. We knew hustlers from Lincoln Projects, but those cats
from your side of Harlem, we didn’t know about. I heard rumors that
Crazy Eddie, Rayvon, Tystick and other dudes were hustlers. But I
didn’t know and I certainly didn’t travel in their circles, other
then us doing shows. I didn’t know these hustling cats because I
didn’t get high. Reggie Reg and Darryl C were more street than all of
us. So I could have been standing next to Alpo, Rich Porter or AZ and
wouldn’t know it. Well that’s not true, maybe I would have known because they all most
likely would have had an entourage. But other cats like the Disco 4
would be in there. Other west side dudes like Crazy Eddie would be in
there too. But if you went up in the Disco Fever in the Bronx, then you
would catch all your hip hop all-stars! But I will be honest with you, I
wasn’t going up there. I hear you. Because I
use to hear that place was off the hook back then. By the time we
seriously started getting into Broadway, Harlem World started dying
down. But we use to hang out in Harlem World big time. Also in Harlem
World, they didn’t show us any preferential treatment. Broadway
International treated us like we were kings. Brill was cool with us so
we would come in there and get free drinks or something like that. I
could walk through the door and bring five people in with no problem. If
I came to Harlem World, I had to make sure the right person was on the
door. They threw out the red carpet for us at the door of Broadway
International. What about
over at the Renaissance with B Fats and Donald Dee?
Ah man, I
use to love The Renny! I don’t think that enough cats give these guys
the credit that they should because to me these are the guys that got me
into rap. I knew what hip hop was a little bit but I didn’t know what
partying was! I started going to the Renny when I was in the ninth
grade. I had just started liking girls. My man said, “Yo lets go up to
the Renny.” I was like, “No, the hell with that. I heard people be
getting shot up there!” He said, “No it’s not like that, come
on.” So we went up to the Renny and it was like your eyes were wide
open. You go in there and the place was packed, packed, packed! A beautiful
sight! Yes! Black
people all over the place, N-----s! You know what I am saying and I am
saying it with love! I know what
you saying. You look up
on the stage and you see these dudes Donald Dee and his brother (B
Fats). Donald Dee on the mic saying, “I am Donald Dee!” You know
Donald had that raspy voice. Mike
Dee had that raspy voice also. I didn’t know any better, but I later
found out they were trying to sound like Hollywood. But they rocked that
crowd. “The Renny don’t rock like this” and people would chant
back and girls were dancing, it was just the spot to be at! I might be
wrong, but it seemed like they would have one night or weekend and then
the next time you would see The Zero Crew. That would be Al Shock, Bill
Blast and Jimmy West. They had a crew of people. I am not
familiar with The Zero Crew, but I have heard about Jimmy West through
Mike Cee of the Fearless Four and a Harlem World tape. West was
cool and Bill Blast was real nice on the mic. Bill Blast to me was
better than all of them, even better then Donald Dee. Bill Blast was the
man on the mic and turntables. Al Shock was real nice too on the
turntables. You would hear the two groups going back and forth. But all
of the guys basically were from Drew Hamilton Projects (141st
Street to 144th Street between 8th and 7th
Avenues). But it was still a rivalry between the two crews! Donald
Dee’s little brother Mike Bee later on use to cut for them. I kind of
liked The Zero Crew much better because it seemed as though they had a
whole bunch of cats that wanted to get down. Jimmy West would be on the
mic and one dude would cut, and after two records maybe another dude
would get on and cut. All of them were pretty good but they had this
tall dude with an afro and glasses looking like a mad scientist named
Peanut who was really good too. But Bill Blass could rap his ass off. He
had the smooth voice with the name to go along. Those guys had Harlem on
lock down because they had the Renny. And that was my first taste of hip
hop. So when did
you say, “Now I am ready to do my thing and start saying my rhymes”?
Well I
didn’t want to do any of that, I wanted to party! See my man Buzzy
that grew up in the same building as Mike and Dave said, “Mike and
Dave are rocking at Kennedy center (135th Street and 5th
Avenue) and if we carry their speakers we can get in free.” So we
started carrying their speakers and getting in free. So now of course
everybody wanted to be an emcee because every block in Harlem had their
own crew. Dave eventually started to let us cut a little bit. Then we
started tinkering with the mic and then we said, “We want to be
rappers”. So we started writing rhymes and started rapping. So who is
“we”? Me, Reggie,
Buzzy, Larry and this guy named Fly Guy. EK Mike Cee wasn’t down with
us yet. Mike got down with us about six months later. Shu Bee wasn’t
down with us yet either. Shu Bee was a little bit older than us. Shu Bee
hung out with Dave and another friend on a personal level. Shu Bee use
to come to the party’s free and hang out, He didn’t even have to
carry speakers. He eventually wanted to be a rapper after he seen the
Furious 5. That’s what gave the birth of La Shu Bee! Dam I thought
for some reason Shu Bee was originally a solo emcee from up in the Bronx
and hooked up with you guys later! Hell no, he
wasn’t doing anything like that.
He started talking s--- when he seen me, known then as Barry Bee,
Mike, Reggie Reg, Buzzy Buzz, Larry known as LSD and Fly Guy rhyming. He
was like, “Yeah I’m going to come out and take all of ya’ll
out!” So it was like a little rivalry between friends. So I asked Shu
Bee, “What’s your name”? He said, (B-Stro starts laughing.) “My
name is La Shu Bee.” I said, “what the does that mean?!” But that
was his name and he stuck with it. And what is
his government? Larry
Miller. Ok. I see
where the “La” came from. I don’t
know if you ever heard this story before but he wasn’t originally down
with us. But he kept talking bad about us so I said, “I’ll battle
your ass the next time we have a show!” The next party was at Kennedy
Center and after that battle he eventually became one of us. What was the
outcome of that battle? He said a
bunch of madness I couldn’t understand. I said a couple of rhymes. It
depended on who was mad at who. Meaning if me and Reggie Reg would get
in an argument, he would say, “Yeah that’s why Shu Bee took your ass
out”! And if somebody got mad at Shu Bee, they would say, “That’s
why Barry took your ass out.” So it depends on who you asked. It’s
funny because two weeks after I battled Shu Bee at Kennedy Center,
Master Don had a birthday party for his girlfriend Ranetta in Lincoln
Projects. Ranetta use to live in my building. Lincoln Center was
connected to my building so we all went down to the party. During the
party Master Don was rocking the mic and he said something about Shu
Bee. I am not sure what he said or how it exactly went down, but Master
Don and Shu Bee ended up battling. So it was a
hot battle? It was
alright, but Shu Bee was going on forever and I have no idea to this day
what the hell he was saying. (Troy starts
laughing.) You is a funny brother. But he
rhymed. Shu Bee was free styling before there was free styling. Don was
dope, I can’t front on that. I think if you heard a tape of it, Don
won! And that was because Don’s s--- was a little bit more organized. Don at the
time didn’t have his Def Committee emcees yet?
Alright now
how did you first make up this name Barry B-Stro? My name was
Barry Bee in the beginning, but of course like any friends that are
close we use to all snap on each other and Disco Dave was like the king
of snaps and we would battle. I had acne like a mother f----- in the
eighth and ninth grade. Fly Guy and I were real tight and we both had
bad acne, so Dave would call me, “Barry B bumps”! Then he started
calling me, “Barry Bumpstro” (Troy starts laughing.) Then one day he
called me “Barry Bee Stro”, and I said “Yeah, I like that. “ And
that was because I got tired of the ‘Bee”,” Cee”, “Dee”
thing. I was like, “Ya’ll could keep it”. And I didn’t want to
be confused with an outdoor restaurant, so that’s when I put the
“dash” in it B-Stro! I got you.
And lot of times I would connect you and La Shu Bee together because
your names were very original. Yeah, well
Shu was a trip. That boy was a comedian. We had a lot of comedians, and
we had a lot of fun. Sometimes I look back at those times and I say damn
I wish I had a tape recorder or something. One of the funniest things I
saw in my life was this cat named Mandiplite. You ever heard of him? Yes, he was a
promoter. Yeah, he was
one of Dave’s friends and he use to come to the shows and he use to
snap. He could snap his ass off. And he was snapping on Darryl C and
Darryl C’s grandmother. Because Darryl C use to call his grandmother
“nanna” and they use to snap on her. Hold up, they
use to call her nanna and snap on her?! Yeah well
Darryl called his grandmother nanna, so everybody referred to her as
nanna. What! Oh yeah,
they use to talk about my mother, everybody’s mother! Nah, I hear
you. They use to do the same thing over here in the Grant Projects. Some
people didn’t understand it, but others did and it was an all day
thing to play the dozens. Of course as long as we were all cool with
each other then it was fine. If the person wasn’t cool you wouldn’t
even think of it. Oh yeah. We
use to do it and no holds barred. So how did
you guys get so close with Mandiplite, wasn’t he from the Bronx? Also
I thought he was getting it money wise as a promoter? Nah,
Mandiplite grew up on the east end of Lincoln Projects, building 60. He
moved to the Bronx later. Ok. I thought
it was the other way around. Is he close to you guys in age? Yes. Shu Bee
use to live on that side of Lincoln where Mandiplite lived. It use to be
Dave, Shu Bee, Howie, Mandiplite and this other cat named Calvin. We
were younger then them. Me, Reggie and G-Man went to school together.
The three of us were closer in age along with Mike, Buzzy and Larry. You guys all
went to King high school together? No, we all
went to elementary school together, but different high schools. So we
would be around all the older guys because of Mike and Dave, but Shu Bee
started hanging with us because he wanted to be an emcee. So one day
Mandiplite got a hot air blast up his ass and said, “I want to be a
promoter”. He definitely had the personality and the balls. The
Renaissance (137th Street and 7th Avenue.) was
giving a show and I think it was the first time Flash and the Furious 5
were playing Harlem together. Mandiplite went right up to Mele Mel and
started talking to him. And to us Mele Mel was like a God! Once High
Powered Rap came out were you guys still very close to each other? Nah, once we
got ghetto famous we had factions in the group. Like Reggie started hanging out with those cats from the west
side. Let me get this straight, Reggie was originally from Lionel
Hampton complex (128th Street and 8th Avenue,
directly across the street from St. Nicholas Projects.) Reggie’s
Grandmother lived in Lincoln, but his mother and father lived in Lionel
Hampton. So Reggie got real cool with those guys out of St. Nicholas
Projects, like Pernello and Paris of the P Brothers. Reg was real cool
with them, but they were real street dudes. We would have a show and he
always popped up with them. Mike Cee was
like a pretty boy, very flamboyant kind of guy. So him and Shu Bee use
to hang out together. As far as me, I use to hang out with the dudes
that didn’t even rap. It was me, Larry, Buzzy and Guy who by this time
wasn’t even a rapper any more. I use to hang with them. To be honest
with you it was me, Buzzy and Larry that use to go to those kung fu
flicks every Saturday. We use to go to the triple feature on the Deuce.
I remember we saw The Five Masters of Death it was a Shaw Brother’s
movie and they did the signs. Then we saw Five Deadly Venoms and of
course they had the Poison Clan, the famous movie. That is when we made
the name The Poison Clan, the cats that don’t rap! So we use to rock
these signs and say Poison Clan rocks the house!
Ok. And during
our shows at the end of all the routines we would sign off by saying,
“Poison Clan rocks the house”! Now I know
Debbie who you guys mention at the end of the record might be close to
you guys, but is there any special roll she played with Crash Crew? Well she was
down. She would come to all our shows and she was real cool with Mike
and Dave. So she was
more or less a fan Nah, she was
a part of the crew. She didn’t do anything but she was down. She might
have held down the door for us, but she was just good people with Mike
and Dave. Alright
let’s go one by one with the members of the crew, Shu Bee first. Shu Bee had
a lot of charisma. People just gravitated to him. He is the type of cat
that when the five of us would come in, and I am talking about the
hottest time for us, when we were very hot we would come into a show and
he had this big name plate that said Shu Bee. It just boggled my mind
the types of people that would come up to him and talk to him and just
want to be around him. And that was because he had charisma. But the
thing I loved about Shu Bee most was other than the rap thing, Shu Bee
was a good friend; he would give you his last. I use to talk sports with
him a lot. He didn’t get high. He was just a good brother. I can’t
say anything negative about him. He was just a good brother and he was
funny as hell. Just good times with him. So was he
quick tempered, and was he the fighter of the crew, or some one else? EK Mike Cee
was more the fighter of the crew, but Shu Bee took s--- more personal.
Like that story I told you about Shu Bee and Kevie Kev at the
Ecstasy Garage. Ok. We will
get to that. Yeah, but
Shu Bee was upset about that and he wouldn’t let it go. Another time
Mr. Ness called us rapist or something like that. Why is that? Well we were
on the road with The Furious 5 and what happened was EK Mike Cee and
this other cat, one of the Furious roadies took these three girls on the
tour bus while the show was still going on. Like I said it was three
girls, but only one of them wanted to get on the bus and the other two
didn’t want to get on the bus. So Mike and the roadie said the hell
with the other two girls and they supposed to have taken the one girl on
the bus. Well the two girls went back and told security that they were
holding her against her will. So security came up to Mike Cee and cuffed
his ass and said where is the girl at? Mike said she went home. While
all this was going on I was sweating bullets for the brother because
they were trying to say she was abducted, this, that and the other. So they
eventually got in touch with the girl and she said, “No they didn’t
do anything, I went home”. So they released him, but the word around
the tour was, “Mike Cee was going to get arrested for rape and this,
that and the other!” But it was totally inaccurate. So when we got
back on the bus, Ness who is a trouble maker who use to say smart-aleck
s--- anyway, he said something in reference to Mike Cee being a rapist,
or Mike Cee tried to rough the p---- or something like that. I can’t
remember the details, but Shu Bee took offense to it. Then Ness took
offense to Shu Bee taking offense and it got real tense. For a minute
there I thought it was going to be the rumble in the jungle. But it was
defused and cool heads prevailed. But Shu would let things like that
bother him. When Ness said that, it rolled off the back of my head. I
didn’t care because it wasn’t true. So Cowboy
didn’t jump into that, because many times I heard people say he was a
real live brother. Nah, Cowboy
was cool. He wasn’t a trouble maker. Cowboy was more like the strong
silent type. Cowboy was the type of brother you could go up to and say
“What’s up Keith.” And he would say “What’s up” like it’s
all good. But I gather if you cross him you going to have to throw it.
But he wasn’t a trouble maker. So have you
ever seen Shu Bee go hand to hand? No, but he
use to act like he could jail house it. But I never seen him fight, but
he acted like he had the quick hands. He would do the quick hands, and
do the shadow boxing like he was Sugar Ray Leonard, crazy ass. I hear you.
So from a 1 to 10, what would you give him as an emcee? Well
that’s kind of hard because what era do you want me to compare him to?
Over all. Hold up, when
you guys started making all those records, did Reggie write all the
rhymes? No not at
all. Everybody wrote their own rhymes. So did Reg
write the routines? No, but he
did write a couple of them. But a lot of routines were peoples rhymes
put together. So we would throw a bunch of our stuff together and that
was how we would develop routines. But in retrospect, we were too proud
to help each other as far as writing rhymes. And that was a big mistake
because I heard in just about every group they would get together as far
as writing rhymes. I guess that was how it went down. But with us a lot
of cats would come to the studio and you wouldn’t know what the other
cat was going to say because it was like a big secret. We would try to
shock each other. But Shu Bee as an emcee, and you talking about lyrics,
I would give him a 5. But his style and presence I would give him a 7
over all. All right,
next up is EK Mike Cee Me and Mike
Cee were tight. But out of all the brothers in the group he was probably
the one I clashed with the most. And that was because I always
questioned his loyalty. Why do you
say that? Because he
let s--- go to his head man! (B-Stro gets a little uptight when he
speaks at this moment.) He was too much in love with that s---. Mike Cee
wanted to be somebody like a….Prince. But I can’t knock him for that
because Shu Bee was a Jackson 5 fanatic before we were The Crash Crew,
as well as
Reggie
Reg loving and Earth Wind and Fire. And my man Reg kept his ankh (Which
means key of life.) with him. And I was big on the white rock and roll
bands, such as Def Leopard or Arrowsmith. G Man pretty much was open to
all music. We all wanted to add a little bit of flavor from the
entertainers that we idolized, but we still kept it hip hop.
So how did EK
display this? Just the way
he acted he thought he was pretty. Well he got b------! I ain’t going
to lie, I have no idea how he did it, but he did it. And that became his
focus, that and singing. And just that image s---! But also Mike Cee was
hard working. It didn’t come natural to him like it came to Reggie,
but Mike Cee worked hard at it. He made him self a pretty good dam
rapper. I think he
could have been better if we would have kept our roots more hard core to
hip hop. But I give Mike Cee a 7. I have to also mention Mike Cee was
always the front man. He enjoyed that. He didn’t mind putting him self
out there and I have a lot of love for him because I couldn’t do it.
But he enjoyed stepping up. I remember we were in Ohio and we were on
stage and he said, “Yo, I am going to spell out Ohio and I am going to
tell the crowd to repeat it.” So he goes, “Give me an O”, and they
go “O.” “Give me an H”, and they go “H.” Give me and I”,
they go “I.” “Give me an E”! And them mother f------ in the
crowd stopped. (We both start laughing.) Me and G-Man look at each other
and said this mother f----- didn’t just say E!? Mike spells OHIE! So
we were like O, O, O, Mike! Alright B-Stro
what about G-Man? G-Man was
good. And G-Man was
the last member to join the group right? Yeah and
that was a controversial mess also. Well when we were all growing up we
all had beef with George. Like I had two fights with him and Reggie had
one fight with him when we were growing up. We really didn’t want his
ass down. He was more Dave’s friend. Plus he wasn’t even a rapper.
He only hung around because he was also cool with Mace that made our
speakers. Well one day before G-Man gets down we had this big fight with
Mike and Dave. Mace is breaking records and it got kind of wild. So we
said f--- it we going and we are going to go out on our own. The next
day The Crash Crew is out but Mace is back. So Mace was a
d.j. as well? Yeah, he use
to cut a little bit too and he was an actual member. But everybody use
to cut with us. But he was better known for building speakers for us. So
after about 2 months Mike and Dave are back doing parties but only they
are doing them out on Long Island. Darryl C came back because he
didn’t want to quit. So now it’s Darrell, Mike and Dave, Mace and
G-Man. G-Man and Dave started rapping together. Him and Dave started
having routines. Now the other core emcees, Reggie, Shu Bee, Mike Cee
and myself were not down. We didn’t get back down until we started
going to the shows in Long Island. So we eventually made up. So it would
be just us four, Shu Bee, Mike, Reggie and me, The Force of the Four.
And G-Man and Dave would always rap together. Then when we made High
Powered Rap. That is when we put everything together. So what were
you guys doing during the time you were not apart of Mike and Dave? Actually we
were not doing anything. This was only like a two or three month period.
No party, no outside jam, nothing. And that was because we didn’t have
any equipment. And this might have been during the winter time any way. So once you
guys got back together you decide to do a record? Yeah, we got
back together and we did a couple of shows and some body came up with
the idea lets do this record and that’s when all 6 of us rapped
together. I almost missed the s---. I stopped coming to the practices
because I had homework and my mother was on my ass. Buzzy and Larry were
the ones that pushed me to the studio, saying “You better get up there
because they talking about cutting you out”. So I went to the last
couple of practices and we eventually cut the record. And that was
how G-Man got down with us, because up until that record he wasn’t
down with us. In fact, I remember Dave threatening us. Telling us, “Yo
y'all mother f------ better leave him alone”. And that was because
none of us particularly cared for him. Later on we all became very cool
with him. In fact, today I have plenty respect for him, but back then we
were young so we acted young and we felt he rubbed everybody the wrong
way. But Dave liked him. And in retrospect G-Man was the one that bought
the Sugar Hill proposition to us, as well as the Bobby Robinson deal. So
Dave was the one that protected or endorsed… Ain’t that
something? Right. But I
don’t know if Dave and Mike ever felt it, because when Dave started
teaching karate, G Man was in his class and he went all the way up to
black belt. So I don’t know if he ever held it against him. Well didn’t
all of you guys learn karate together? Nah the only
one who did was G-Man and that was later after the first record. He
tried to get us into it, but I didn’t want to do it. I don’t know if
you knew this but we were all into weight lifting. We would all go to
the bath house on 135th Street and lift weights. Now as an
emcee how did you look at him? Well G-Man
was good because he was smart. His raps probably made the most sense. He
knew how to throw the little twist with the words. He was pretty decent.
I don’t know about his flow and delivery. I don’t think he was as
smooth as Reggie, but lyrically he was up there. Once the
record High Powered Rap came out and his famous lyrics “And you
walking down the street with your box in your hand…”, what did you
feel it did for the record, and what did you see when you looked at the
crowds first reaction as soon as they heard those lines? I kind of
always felt that song didn’t make the record. People tried to say it
did, but I beg to differ. Well I felt
it was just as popular as the beginning and middle! So it was a
collected piece of work. Yes, I just
felt the song was the cherry on top. A lot of times we didn’t even get
to the song part of the record at live shows. But I think that was the
part the girls liked the most. But for me it didn’t make a difference.
I think Mike Cee might have been kind of envious because G-Man got the
solo. But I didn’t care, I didn’t think it was that important. I
thought the record was strong on its own. Well what
were your thoughts when I played Rayvon’s piece for you? I never
noticed the melody was so close to G-Mans until you played that for me.
Of course G-Man got the idea from him, but I never knew he took the same
melody from him. I could see why Rayvon was mad because he was very
upset about it. Rayvon spoke to all of us in the group, but he
wouldn’t say anything to G-Man. I knew he was upset, but I didn’t
know why, I was like well why is he so mad it’s just a dam song. But
now I know why. So
for G-Man a 1 to 10 as an emcee collectively? I give him a
7. Alright next
up Disco Dave? As a rapper?
Yes. Dave was
another cat that could write. He had good rhymes just his delivery was
kind of suspect because s— was changing, but I would give him a 7
also. Well as far
as his lyric “Girls, Girls, Girls,” what was your thoughts on that
as far as Jay-Z taking it and using it for himself?
See I try to
use common sense. I love
the fact that Jay-Z took that. I am not sure who bought it to his
attention. It was
supposed to be Biz Mark that bought it to Jay-Z’s attention. Biz was on
the record so I kind of assumed it was him. But it goes to show that
these cats remember. I saw the interview and I wasn’t feeling the
whole idea to call out Jay-Z and say he contradicted himself by saying
he didn’t like what they did to the Cold Crush. I don’t know who
made what deal with whom, but I know I got BMI checks for him using
those lyrics. Really, I
didn’t know that. Yes twice a
year. And being as it was in heavy rotation we got credited as writers.
So yes we were getting checks. So that was
decent on Mike and Dave, because all of you guys got credited as
producers or writers of that record. Well we copy
wrote the record, but then I heard Mike and Dave did also. So I don’t
know how that went down. You have to ask Reggie that because he is the
one spending time with the lawyers. I have been gone since 1989. Some
how I think Mike and Dave got credited also. What about
Dave the business man? Well Dave
didn’t really have the personality to deal with these other rappers.
That was more a Mix Master Mike thing. Mike was good, he talked to
everybody. He did plenty of shows with The Treacherous 3 and others.
Dave was more behind the scenes. So I don’t know how much he was
involved with the business end. Well all
these years I thought Dave was like the muscle and Mike was the brains
and they were a perfect combination and they worked hand and hand. (When
you get a chance somebody tell Mike and Dave I would like to interview
them.) People might
assume that, but I never seen Dave hit anybody. Well I bring
that up because I heard he had that temper as well and he was ready to
set it off and he was skilled in the martial arts. He had a
temper, but that was with us. Dave held his head when it came to
everybody else. When he lost his temper with us it was a brother type
thing, “To hell with you, well to hell with you too”! You know what
I am saying?! All right,
next up is Reggie Reg. Reggie could
have been one of the greatest of all time. Reggie had the diabolical
mind set. He had the flow, he was into comic books. He felt the true
essence of hip hop, which was f--- that singing like angels s---. He was
on some “Lets rap! Let’s hold our d---- and let’s rap!” That’s
what Reggie was about. If he had better support as far as group members
are concerned, and he didn’t let that night life get a hold of him
Reggie could have been one of the greatest of all times.
Reggie was so laid back and behind the scenes. He was the cool
one. Everybody was like, “Yeah I like Reg”. Reg kept it real. He was
a homeboy. And he wasn’t out there trying to look pretty nor was he
supped up. He just smoked his weed and sat behind the scenes. Would Reg be
considered the best emcee of the crew? Hell yeah! So from a 1
to 10? From a 1 to
10 I give him probably an 8, but as far as potential I give him a 10. He
could have been a 10, but I would give him an 8 or 9. So in Harlem,
after Kool Moe Dee, who would be the best emcee? We will exclude Caz and
Mel because they are in the Bronx. Well
that’s a matter of style. I am asking
overall. I don’t
know because people with consensus will tell you that it was Moe Dee?
But lyrically I guess you are right, but to be honest with you out of
the Treacherous 3, I thought all of them brothers were equally good.
They just bought something different. I think Moe has become the face of
the Treacherous 3 because of his solo career. And if you step to him he
could do “VerymerryeverytimeIbustacherry,
itsfameandglorybutyouneverhearmetellthestory!” But to me the flow,
Special K, that boy was nice! But I don’t know what happened or what he did; I
guess he didn’t promote himself. And L.A. was nice too. To me all
three of those cats were nice. Well Moe had
a more out going or dominating personality. I guess that would be that
Leo inside of him. And also I
think that they all deferred to Moe. They looked at Moe as the leader. Right he was
the captain. But if you
ever listened to them live or heard their live tapes from back in the
days L.A. had these rhymes that were just dope too. Plus his voice was
dope. Right and his
rhymes were totally different from Moe and Special K and he still held
his own. So I guess
you would have to say that Moe was the best because of his longevity as
far as his resume. But Moe was nice and Tito from the Fearless Four too.
Kid West from the Devastating 3, that n----- was nice also. I was not a
big fan of his voice but he had dope rhymes. Rayvon and Jekyll and Hyde
were good also. What about
Master Don the emcee? Don had dope
rhymes but he just spoke too fast. Reggie is up there. In fact, I think
Reggie could have gotten down with The Treacherous 3 and held his own. Did Reggie
Reg move out of Lincoln Projects right in the middle of The Crash Crew
career? No he moved
out before that. Probably in the 6th or 7th grade.
What, I
though he was a Lincoln s member all his life. No he hung
out in Lincoln. See what it was was his grandmother lived in the Lincoln
Projects. All right,
next up Darrel Cee? Darryl was
nice but he just got lazy. When Darryl C first came to our group he was
the best d.j. He could smoke me, Reggie and Mike. He could cut, he could
scratch. But after awhile he just became more of a record player and
that was because he took a back seat to the rappers. So I don’t want
to say lazy, but his role changed. He just did his thing for our
routines. So he kind of sacrificed himself. But the brilliance of Darryl
was he had all the cuts, he was one of the few Harlem guys that had all
the records. He had all the joints that Bam and them had. Darryl knew
cats. He was the kind of guy that could go up and talk to somebody from
Wall Street and get them to like him and then talk to some gutter rat.
Everybody liked Darrel. But then there were other cats that thought he
was supped up with a big mouth or he talked to much s---.
He was also spoiled by his family, but those that knew him and on
the business side he was a real cool brother. God bless him. All right my
man Mix Master Mike? Well before
cutting and scratching, he was good at mixing. He knew what he was
doing. But as a business man he was real good, but I think he should
have taken a leap. But that is easy for me to say because that wasn’t
my money. But he definitely has a place in history. I don’t think he
gets enough props for the work he has done. Did you guys
have Crash Crew group meetings at his house? Group
meetings, man we were their every day. We, the core members, would go to
their house to cut, scratch and rap everyday. Then Mix Master Mike might
say, “We playing Randy’s Place and Jekyll and Hyde along with M7 are
going to be there. It’s going to be packed, its going to be packed!”
And then he would say, “Yo Crash Crew ya’ll got to rock the house,
ya’ll got to do this, do that”. And to be honest with you, when we
did Mike and Dave shows we were never the headliners even though we were
apart of their group. We were like the house group. So we would get on
maybe towards the middle. But he would always have Jekyll and Hyde or
Rayvon and Johnny Wa as head liners. So this
treatment was before the record. Right So once you
put that record you guys always were the headline for Mike and Dave? Yeah,
basically.
No, but as
big as our rivalry was with Don and the Def Committee… and he hated us
at one point because I remember him telling Darryl C that. But then he
became good friends with Mike Cee. And he was always cool with Mike and
Dave and I guess that was because Mike and Dave always put them on the
shows. And he was alright with me although I really never talked to him
much. So why did he
say he hated you emcee’s? I guess it
was that block rivalry thing and the battle with Shu Bee. He was trying
to make a name for himself; we were trying to make a name for ourselves.
In fact, one night he threw a party at Kennedy Center and something
happened to his turntables and this was before Darryl C got down with
us. Darryl was the d.j. over at Riverton Houses (across the street from
Lincoln Projects.) and he lent Master Don some new cartridges. So Darryl
and Don struck up a friendship and that was when Don told Darryl he
couldn’t stand them Crash Crew mother-------! Of course Darryl told us
later when he got down with us. I knew Don’s sister and I think EK
dated his sister. We eventually became cool. What was the
deal with Darryl once you guys went to Sugar Hill? He continued
to d.j. for us after awhile, but he just wasn’t under contract with
Sugar Hill. But he was down with us. He would even come out to the
studio in Jersey to watch some sessions. What were his
feelings about Sylvia and trying to get up in there? Well Darryl
is a s--- talker, so he use to hang out with Leland and they use to talk
s--- together. But I think Darryl knew eventually, like everyone else,
that this was a no win situation. Who managed
you guys after you left Mike and Dave, being as Sylvia took no part in
really assisting you guys after you would come out of the studio? Well no one
for a long time. We had a booking agent, but that was it. Later D.J.
Yoda, who was very tight with Darryl and they both lived in the Riverton
complex, became our manager. Today Yoda runs strong with Bam running
those Zulu Nation anniversaries. What was the
deal with Fly Guy? He was there
in our infancy for about three or four years. He did routines and
parties with us. He was good as an emcee with his raspy voice. When I
told you early in the interview we had a fight with Mike and Dave as
well as Mace, that was the last time we heard from him. He never came
back when we finally all came back together. But he had brothers and
sisters and a sick mother to take care of. Plus he was going to college
in Queens. He just didn’t have time and him and Dave use to have
friction. He was from
Lincoln also? No, he was
from Dunbar Houses. (151st Street and 8th Avenue.)
I guess he
was the only one that wasn’t living in Lincoln or across the street
from Lincoln. Well he was
my friend and every one thought he was my cousin. He was one of the
first guys to start carrying speakers to get into the parties back in
the day. And see we wanted to go to the parties to see the girls. That
rap thing happened by accident. How did Mace
get on? That was
another one of Dave’s boys, and Mace went to Norman Thomas High School
with Dave. Mace started hanging around and making speakers with Dave.
Dave started letting him cut a little bit. Mace’s role was more of a
behind the scenes type of guy. He was more Mike and Dave’s friend then
a performer. What about
.45? 45 was just
a comedian man. He was a cat that hung out with us and made us laugh.
One of the funniest brothers I ever met! Did he ever
emcee or d.j.? Up in the
house and say stupid s---. But he never performed with us. How did he
get the name .45? Because he
had a 45 cent hair cut! They said he got a 45 cent hair cut and so they
called him 45! You n------
is mad! (Troy is laughing.)Dam I thought it was the .45 pistol all these
years! Hell no, 45
wouldn’t harm a fly. I hear you
kid… but he was so cool that was why you guys put him on the record. What was the
deal at the Savoy Manor where there was gun shots on my tape?
(Tape 73.) We were
supposed to battle Master Don and the Def Committee one night at another
party and it turned into a whole lot of bull s---! Because when we got
there we didn’t want to battle them, and I got the feeling they
didn’t want to battle us either. There was
this guy named Sid that was there and he really wasn’t with us, but we
knew him. Sid said, “I will take Master Don’s beat box”! Sid
started making a whole lot of noise and Don was looking at him. Well
Phase 2 was there because he was good friends with Mike and Dave as well
as us. Phase 2 said, “Yo stop that s—Sid”. and he pushed Sid away.
Sid left it alone and that night there was a party but no battle. To be honest
with you, it was false advertisement. And from what I understand they
would have taken us out because we were not prepared. And I heard they
had a whole lot of battle rhymes. There was a whole lot of tension and
everybody was wanting for somebody to make the first move. We both
performed and nothing was said. To be honest, I didn’t want to battle
those cats. Why not? To me it was
pointless. Why should we battle Master Don and The Def Committee when we
have so much to lose and nothing to gain? If you are going to battle
somebody you should battle somebody that was more famous, at least at
that time. If they would have taken us out people would have been like
“Crash Crew is worthless.” They would have been like, “They making
all these records and they got smoked by Master Don! “ Oh so this
was during the time of the records. I thought it was during the early
days! So where was this
supposed to have taken place? This was
I.S. 201. Now this guy
Sid talking about taking Don’s beat box, how was he able to get away
with that when Don had all those Avenue Boys behind him as well as his
brothers? I really
don’t know if he was serious about that. I think he was doing it just
to mess with Don. Of course we wouldn’t let him do it any way. Mike
and Dave wouldn’t let him do it either. Now I am treading lightly on
this but the rumor is the night of the shootout at The Savoy, Bam Boo
was the shooter! Ok, but from
what I got Bam Boo was the one that got shot. He did, but
he was doing the shooting too. The rumor was he was there to stick us
up. I heard that,
right while you guys were on stage he pulled out on ya’ll! Yeah, he was
going to rob Shu Bee of his name chain at gun point. Now the rumor was
that was in retaliation for what Sid did. Damn, ain’t
that something. Yes. Now I
never confirmed this, but I could never look at Don again. I don’t
know if this was true, and Mike and Dave said “No!” They were
checking people at the door. I don’t know how Bam Boo got in with a
pistol unless he knew somebody, if he came in with Don or whatever. But
he should not have gotten in with a pistol. But it’s a
sour subject for me because a young kid that grew up in the projects
with me, who also looked up to us, got shot. And you can ask Magic Dee
and them because he use to hang out with them. He got shot by a
ricocheted bullet and died right there on the floor. His name was Joseph
Simpson, Lay Low Joe! They use to call him Lay Low Joe because he use to
wear high waters like Urcle, Steve Urcle from TV. He bled to death. EMS
took too long to get there. And he was
hanging out with you guys. Yeah. It was
a big night, Crash Crew playing Savoy Manor. You know who else was
playing there that night? Force M.C.s, Doug E Fresh, Master Don and The
Def Committee. Man I still got nightmares about that. All five of us
were on stage and out of my peripheral vision I see somebody running and
you hear POW, POW, POW! So he
didn’t even get a chance to say “Give me your chain”, he just
started busting off! No, he
started shooting with some cat…I don’t know what the f--- happened!
They started shooting back and forth. He didn’t get a chance to rob
Shu Bee, it was just gun fire. So I thought they were trying to shoot at
us, I dropped the microphone and dived off the stage. People were every
where; I dived over people, tables, whatever was in front of me. While
this was going on, I am looking at the shooter and he is running and
shooting his way out of there. And he ran out. It was one of the
scariest scenes…it was just buck wild. I can
imagine. Now the thing about this show is I have a whole 90 minute tape
of the show and every one I guess preformed
and you guys come on last and a couple of minutes before the tape
finishes POW, POW, POW and the mics drop! Well I could
never confirm the rumors and nobody retaliated or nothing like that, but
that was the word on the street. Mike and Dave said it wasn’t true
that Don set that up. F--- that, or maybe it was a coincidence. But I
was very shaken up because my sister and my girl were there too. I
believe a talent scout for Beat Street was there also. We later found
out that G-Man read for Beat Street. Before the
records what Bronx Crew was showing you guys the most love? Well we
never played the Bronx until we made High Powered Rap. Nobody in the
Bronx probably heard of us because we never did any party’s at any of
those clubs. So none of
those big crews came down to 201 or the YMCA in Harlem back then? No, we never
played the Bronx until we played Ecstasy Garage. And that first time we
played The Ecstasy Garage the opposition was trying to sabotage our
sound system. So what was
that all about? From what I
remember High Powered Rap was hot. Armstrong booked us to play there and
our picture was on the flyer. The word on the streets was Fantastic, who
was also on the flyer, did not take kindly to our picture being on the
flyer. When we got on to play the sound system sounded so terrible it
was ridiculous. Every time somebody tried to rap it sounded like
“$%&*+%$^&@#$%$@_+&@.” You couldn’t hear s---! Darryl
C tried to cut, but the records were skipping, everything was f--- up!
At the Ecstasy garage they didn’t have a real stage they had a rope.
The place was packed and people were screaming out, “Darryl C can’t
quick mix”. They were booing us. It was a disaster. All I can
remember was we tried to do our best and perform the record, but it was
a disaster. We all had on white on white shirts and jeans, and we looked
like a bunch of fools. I remember Dave being upset and saying, “If
ya’ll really want to see the Crash Crew rock come to the T-Connection
next week.” The Garage was a disaster, the next week we go to The
T-Connection and we ripped that s--- up. Furious 5 were there and
Fantastic 5 was there for that one too, but they could not f--- with the
system. It sounded perfect. We ripped it up and we redeemed ourselves. How did
Fantastic and Furious respond to you that night? Reggie Reg
told me later somehow he heard, or somebody told him that Rahiem told
Fantastic don’t let them mother f-----s come up in here and take your
s--- and rock the Bronx! So he was trying to give them a pep talk.
Fantastic did rock the house, but our s--- was flawless. Fly Guy was
there for that party and he was handing the records to Darryl C and. At
the same time he heard someone amping us up to Mele Mel saying, “Yeah
Mel check this part out” as we were rocking Got To Be Real to one of
our routines. The crowd was eating it up. What happened
the next time you guys went to The Ecstasy Garage?
Kev and Shu
Bee never really got into it, but they were talking back and forth to
each other. It was never an argument, but it was more like a debate. One
would give his point of view and the other would give his point of view.
But at one time somebody clearly passed Kevie Kev a gun! Kevie Kev put
it in his waist band. Now I don’t know if he was trying to intimidate
us or he just wanted his gun. He never made reference to it. He just put
it in his waist band. We said f--- it, they won’t let us get on so we
said we will never do a show in the Ecstasy Garage. From that
situation though, for whatever reason, Kev gained respect for Shu Bee.
At least that is what it seemed like to me, and that was because Shu Bee
spoke up. I say that because whenever we played in a show together after
that night or if we were in a club with Fantastic, Kevie Kev would be on
the mic and he would say, “My man Shu Bee is in the house.” He would
always make reference to his name. As far as
Furious, I don’t think they thought we were a threat to their throne.
I don’t think they thought any one was a threat to their throne. In
fact, when Kevie Kev got down with them for a minute they just went on
to some new s--- with that Furious Lover s---. And at that time for them
everything was about Rick James.
Man every
time we did a show with them they were always talking about “This is
to my man Rick James,” this, that and the other. Plus they were
wearing that leather s---. So do you
know why Kev was with Furious 5 for a minute?
I remember
you telling me the Cold Crush showed you guy’s great love. Man Caz was
just a friendly brother. A.D. was kind of cold and didn’t have much to
say, but J.D.L. showed mad love and was a funny n-----. K.G. was cool.
Chase and Tone were cool also. Even Tape Master was cool. I just really
remember them ripping s—up. Did you do
any boat rides with them? We never
did, but they did. They almost sank that mother f----- from what I
heard. It was so many people partying with them it almost sank.
Well a couple
of schools would go with them up there on the boat, like Norman Thomas,
Printing and Julia Richmond. And one year my school, J.H.S. 43, met them
up there at Bear Mountain, which is were many other schools would meet. Norman
Thomas damn! That school was incredible because it was like six girls to
one boy. Exactly. And that’s
where Moe Dee went to school at and him and I were cool because we did a
few shows together before he got to Norman Thomas. Being as Buzzy use to
go to school down there and I use to come down there to hang out. Me,
Moe and Buzzy had a couple of girls in common.
Denise and Donna and maybe a few others. L.A. Sunshine didn’t
go there either, but he use to hang out in there all the time and we
would say what’s up to each other. How do you
look at the history today of The Crash Crew and hip hop itself? Well I look
at it as we had our place in history We are just one of the bricks. If
you look at a pyramid we are just one of the bricks at the lower part of
the pyramid. I think our talent was underrated. People didn’t really
appreciate us because during our era the more popular choices were like
Cold Crush, Fantastic. Its kind of funny when you hear people try and
make references to old school. The first thing they say is “Cold
Crush, Fantastic.” But that’s people that don’t know any thing
about old school rap. Sure they were popular and they have a huge place
in history, but you can watch the movie Wild Style and figure that out. Right and
they flooded the market with the live cassette tapes back then. Right. So
cats really don’t know. Especially when you had the lesser known
groups like Magnificent 7 or The Zero Crew etc. Yeah you
right about The Zero Crew, because that got past me. Were you the first
one to leave the crew? No G-Man was
He left the crew to join the Police Department. He said he gave up, but
I think he did it because he thought we were going to fold once he left.
I was going to college and I had to make a move. That s--- was not going
to pay the bills, so I joined the Air Force and did 5 years. Now I am
down here as a sergeant in the police department in Virginia. In fact,
for years nobody at the police department knew who I was as far as me
being an emcee in a rap group. But it got on You Tube, now the whole
department knows. You didn’t
tell no one in the Air Force either? No, and that
was because I didn’t think any one would relate. I understand.
And we
really were not mainstream. I understand
you, but today you guys are all over the planet. (B-Stro says
it with lackluster.) Yeah we are, but if we could do it all over again,
I just wish we would have gotten on the same page because we had talent.
We were just buck wild. Everybody just wanted to do something different.
Who would you
say is the most vocal leader keeping all you guys together? Right now
that would be Reggie Reg. No, I am
talking about back then? Would that be you? No, I was
sort of detached. I was in
it, but I was skeptical because it was just too many obstacles. So I was
just like G-Man and kept all my options open. Me and G-Man were always
going to school. As far as focus back then, that would be EK Mike Cee.
He was the one that really wanted to be a rap star. How do you
look at hip hop today and do you listen to it? No, I
don’t listen to it. I give props to any one that comes out of New
York. Because to me any one that comes out of New York has flavor, true
hip hop flavor. I like Jay-Z and of course L.L. keeps reinventing his
self. Let me not say that, because those cats like Snoop, Dre, etc.,
from the west coast are nice also. But today the only hip hop I am
hearing from is the south and they have a different flavor that I am not
feeling. I like the New York sound and some of the west coast sound. But
I don’t really listen to hip hop now.
Peace my
brother Barry B-B-Stro, thank you for your time. Thank you my
brother Troy. I want to thank my man Reggie Reg of the legendary Crash Crew for
putting me in contact with Barry B-Stro. Also want to thank the very
informative www.oldschoolhiphop.com
message, because those are some very brilliant people. Thank you my
brother Shbzz7 for your help also. And I want to tell the world I love
my two sons, Shemar and Troy Jr. Praise God and God bless you.
|
Nah, we
never really had team meetings. What would happen is basically on
Fridays, everyone would show up to the studio to probably get some money
or somebody might be in the studio laying down a track or working on a
track. So you would have to wait in the lobby, and on several occasions
you might see other groups. I remember sitting out there with Furious or
Funky 4, but mostly just a couple of guys would be talking. But everyone
mostly stayed to themselves and we would basically stay to ourselves. I
wouldn’t say there was animosity, but it certainly wasn’t any family
atmosphere. 
Nah and I
don’t blame them, and in my opinion they were like the flagship group.
They were the most talented group. But of course in my opinion, Sylvia
wanted Sugar Hill to get the headline. But Furious was the most
talented. 
from our elbow. So Joe Robinson came
across like he was no bull s---! Like a tough guy. Their son Joey was
real enthusiastic.
They were
cool, they were professionals and certainly talented because a lot of
them went on and played with R&B groups. Keith LeBlanc was a well
known drummer Doug Wimbish was great, as well as Reggie Griffin. All those
cats were talented, but I think at the time and you have to remember the
time of rap that we were doing it, I don’t think they respected rap! I
can’t give you details of the way they responded to something, but it
was like a type of attitude. And I might be wrong, but I got the
impression that they didn’t feel it was a real art form. Plus they
were like behind the scenes and the rappers were in front. I am sure
today they don’t feel that way because rap has been around for like 30
years. That was just the impression I got. They never said anything that
made me confirm that, but that was just the impression I got. 
That was
something Sylvia wanted to do, but it was kind of hot for a minute. Now
looking back of course, we didn’t know what we were doing, but in the
rap game you
want to stay hot and you want to keep putting s--- out. At the time, she
had just signed Mean Machine. She also had Furious 5; she had us, and
Funky. Treacherous weren’t down yet. She also had Sequence and Sugar
Hill. And her son was trying to do some thing called West Street Mob. So
we were like at the bottom of the totem pole, so we had to wait. We
later found out her plan was to sign groups to put them in the freezer! 
No, I think
G-Man was. 
So that is
what that is all about then? 
I never saw
a dime, not a dime, not a red cent of royalty monies from Sugar Hill
Records. Today, Rhino has bought the catalogue and individually we have
signed up with artist right’s people. Reggie Reg told me a lot of guys
from Sugar Hill records label have signed up to it, and they sort of
sued and we are now getting royalties. It’s minuscule, but it is still
more than I ever got from Sugar Hill Records. She got those contracts in
the dungeon. She got them so you would never receive a cent. 
Not only
Harlem, but later on him and D.J. AJ hooked up and started doing shows.
AJ was sort of like a co-promoter although he didn’t have his name on
it. It was
underground, but they also started doing shows in the Bronx too. He also
did shows in Long Island. And a lot of people don’t know the story,
but before Biz Mark blew up he use to stand in front of our shows
watching us rock with his little blue baseball cap saying in capital
letters B I Z. And I use to say, “Who is this cat!” Biz was from
Long Island (as well as Harlem) and he use to come to Mike and Dave’s
parties, and him and I were kind of friendly. But him and EK Mike Cee
sort of struck up a relationship or friendship. He definitely struck up
a friendship with Mike and Dave, and that goes to show you that they
were everywhere! 
Well when We
Want to Rock came out, we went on tour
down to Richmond, Virginia and Philly. Then we did a little east coast
tour during the holidays with Flash and The Furious 5 and West Street
Mob, along with the Sugar Hill Gang and Sequence. Mean Machine wasn’t
on it. So we toured for a minute and we did a decent amount of touring
for We Want to Rock. We should have done more, but this goes to show you
how terrible things were. I don’t know if you ever heard this story
but Fantastic was touring with Furious 5. So we went to Sylvia and we
asked her why are you sending out The Fantastic 5 on the Sugar Hill Tour
when they aren’t even on your label! She said because Furious told her
that Crash Crew don’t do shows or something like that. So we looked at
it like they were looking out for their homeboys. So we were like,
“Nah, oh hell no!” So, that was when she put us out on that tour. 
Well what
happened was, when we went on tour and Furious had Freedom and Birthday
Party and we had We Want to Rock, West Street Mob had a version of
Freedom, for whatever
reason.
See this is what I am talking about! Joey Robinson did a remix of
Freedom with no rap. He just redid the whole damn song, but really
didn’t do nothing. They played that on the show too, so Furious was
like, I guess because they couldn’t tell Joey, “No,” they went to
the road manager Ron Strong or something like that and he told us we
couldn’t play it. We were like, “What? We had the record first
before West Street and Furious.” It only happened on that tour which
lasted for about ten days. So it never happened again. Their catalogue
was a lot bigger and I really don’t think we ever toured with them
again.
I can believe
it, because Bam had a million records even then. 
No, he had
his boy this light skin dude and his girl Renetta. She called her self
Disco Nett! It was just them three. It wasn’t until later that he went
full board that he got a crew. 
Did anybody
else come to Mike and Dave’s house, such as Disco 4 or Fearless or
Treacherous?
The next
time we played there we were late. We were late because we were
performing at another show. When we get to The Ecstasy Garage Armstrong
won’t
let us get on because we were late. It was me, Mike, Shu Bee, Armstrong
and Kevie Kev in the back room with a couple other Bronx dudes. Kevie
Kev was doing all the talking saying, “F--- that, ya’ll disrespected
the party. Ya’ll can’t get on”. Shu Bee was like, “Nah, that’s
f--- up. Ya’ll just dissing us because we are from Manhattan.” Etc. 
Hold up what
does Rick James have to do with this? 
Oh yeah, he
was taking Creole’s spot. I remember the day well. We were getting on
the bus in Jersey and Creole was just standing there outside of the bus
and they wouldn’t let him get on. Mel got off the bus and talked to
him while Kev was sitting right on the bus. Now before this day when
ever Fantastic performed they wore these burgundy tuxes. So Kev got this
burgundy tux, but The Furious wore leather. They wore leather top coats
with tails. It was fly with studs on it. This was during the
Thanksgiving leg of the tour. By the Christmas leg of the tour Kev had
his leather tails on and he was right up there. (Kid Creole ended up
getting back with the group pretty fast. Kevie Kev got a one shot deal
with Sugar Hill Records and made the record All Night Long by Water Bed
Kev in 1983.) 
I remember
you were telling me you dug Wu Tang. If you could transform somebody
back to 70s, early 80s, they would be the ones because to me they have
that true hip hop feel. Not stick up kid gritty, but I am talking about:
“Let’s wear a shirt that says “RZA” on the back of it. Like it
was back in the days when we were going to high